A beginner question on Apex.

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#1
Hello,

First of all, thank you for taking the time to read and answer my questions. as the title entails, i'am a beginner. amidst all the research i have been doing, i'am finding it overwhelming to say the least. So i have resorted to asking rather then reading ><

ok first of all, i have a 80g tank that has not been set up yet. i plan to purchase:

APEX CONTROLLER WITH LAB-GRADE PH PROBE
VORTECH MP10QD QUIETDRIVE PROPELLER PUMP x2

And some $120 made in China leds (cannot afford to get Radions)

1: Am i right to assume that the MP10QD will not work with the Apex? To have them work i need to upgrade the mp10's to the wireless model and purchase a WXM?

2: if i was to purchase the $120 LEDs from China and plugged them into the apex the only control i have over the leds are to switch them on or off at designated times? to have the day/night mode i would have to manual change them on the actual leds?

I've been reading up on many things for the past 5 hours i think i smell smoke...
so sorry if these questions are noobish and thank you for reading.

Lean~
 
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#3
hello lowbudget, thank you for the fast reply.

yes the LED's does have the dimming knobs. i really wish i could afford apex related lights, would be nice to have control over the timing and intensity of the lights to give a more natural effect.

http://www.amazon.com/LED-Aquarium-...&qid=1443315640&sr=8-9&keywords=aquarium+leds

also regarding the powerheads, i picked the vortex for the low profile and the fact the electrics are on the outside. for a 80g which other powerheads would you recommend?

thank you,

Lean~
 
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#4
2: I have similiar LEDs (taotronics led off amazon). You can stagger them when they turn on. Blues on, Whites on, Whites off, Blues Off. Though I dont know what LEDs are on what channels on that light you are thinking about getting.

Jebaos are decent powderheads for the price. You can definitely save a few bucks getting them over the vortech.
 
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#5
How think is your tank wall? Mp10 in general might have trouble staying on >3/8. I don't think they change that on the QD models either. Anyway, to control the ecotech pumps using the apex and skip the oem controllers, yes you need the wmx. For the led dimming, there are options more affordable than Radions.
Anyway ask away, we have many helpful people here...welcome to SCR
 
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#6
For control of the pumps go with reeflink as the price drop since they first came out plus they got rid of most of the bugs with new firmware. Reef link is easier to set up and upgrade firmware on the pumps.

As for LED anything that have a 0-10v control will work on the APEX and there are a few I know that have that ability.
 

bvysochin

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#7
You also do realize that you don't need any special controller for the Vortech's, right? They come with their own individual controllers, with knob, that you're able to set all the different modes on. Wireless would be ideal, since you could have both pumps communicate with each other, sync/anti sync, etc. But, as far as being controlled by the Apex, I have at least 10 MP40's, and a couple MP10's, and I've never had them controlled by my Apex.. If you're trying to save money, that's one place I would. You could always add a WXM later, and in my opinion, the stock controllers are powerful/feature rich enough. Someone mentioned glass thickness above.. with an 80 gallon tank, that's one thing you definitely need to double, and triple check before you order the MP10's, as there is a maximum glass thickness. I currently have one MP10 on glass tank with 1/2" glass. I wouldn't say it can't be done, as I've been running it this way for well over a year with no issues, but I wouldn't recommend it. For your size tank, and depending on your dimensions, I would consider doing one MP40 instead.. as the flow pattern is quite a bit different between the two and the maximum glass thickness goes up. You'd also be able to use the pump in the future if you decided to upgrade, whereas the MP10 will be limited.. For lighting, I haven't had good experience with cheap LED's, but your mileage may vary, some people can pull them off. Lighting is not something I would ever skimp on. I'm not particularly a fan of LED's altogether, and I've had everything from cheap chinese fixtures, to Kessil's, to the earlier Radion's, AI sols, AI Vegas, AI hydra 52's, etc. I'd save my money and buy a T5 fixture for $150-200, add some ATI bulbs, and move on, knowing that I could grow any coral out there. Lighting is something that you can ask 10 different people about, and get 10 different answers. Just my experience..
 
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#8
Thanks to everyone for the replies.
[MENTION=3291]bvysochin[/MENTION]:
Yeah, i know about the controllers for the vortec. i just wanted to get a better understanding. the apex for me is more for redundancy issues more then anything else. pressing a few extra buttons is not going to be a problem. Just be nice to able to control EVERYTHING from one place. As for the lighting, i do like LED's better. power consumption and overall bulb cost (i'am right to assume you change the bulbs every six months?) With me being on the research part of the tank build there isnt a need to get what i need now. So maybe by the time the kids get older and i can actually start it i can afford radions then. i do, however, plan to get the 40's instead of the 10's now. makes more sense to get omehting more powerfull and tone it done rather then smaller and pump it to the max to keep up. the tank is 48x18x24 0.25" acrylic. going of the vortect site its fine for the powerheads. i do appriciate the info you have given me.
[MENTION=989]babyjess210[/MENTION] :
I have been looking into that, but i planned for the apex to be a redundancy measure more then anything else. Or would a cheaper Reefkeeper + Reeflink be a better solution? or just skip the whole Apex thing? i have been reading people saying "you dont really need it, but its awesome to have. makes things a lot easier"
[MENTION=5212]ngvu1[/MENTION] :
Tank size is 48x18x24 0.25" acrylic. For the lighting, obviously i want something good for the corals. Power consumption and overall looks matter to me too. bvysochin mentioned T5 lighting, but i really don't like the look of them ><, to be honest i dont like the look of the Radions either. I do like the look of the Kessils. last night i was burnt out from reading, i will look them up later for info such as how many do i need for a 48" tank, what colours do i need etc etc (hint hint >.>) but the main thing is having the lights controlled, having two kids up and sleep time differ. sometimes i'am up at 7am sometimes its 11am. so i wanted to have lights be able to come a certain time, and off. i know im not going to get that with made in china lights. Reading what bvysochin has said i'a, considering selling a kidney and getting some better lights.
[MENTION=7848]Peter Hall[/MENTION]:
I have looked into the jebaos and reading some conflicting reviews, some say their great some say then break down after 6 months. My wife/bank say she rather shell out for better powerheads then get cheaper ones and run the risk of it breaking down a few months down the road, plus vortecs look do pretty~ she has given me a budget to work with and i decided that getting better power heads were more important/cheaper then better lighting.

thank you all for taking the time to reply to my post.
Lean~
 

bvysochin

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#9
I understand about the redundancy.. but you're going to see, the reality of it is that you're not going to be fiddling with your vortech(s) as often as you might think. They have a feed mode on the stock controller, which slows the pumps way down, and all wireless pumps go into feed mode as soon as its activated on just one pump. For LED lighting, You'd be surprised on the power cost. There's lots of variables that go into play, but once you start adding up watts for watts, you're going to see that the savings aren't as drastic as you'd expect. Yes, the lack of heat is nice--during the summer time. But, wait till winter time comes. Depending on where you place your tank and your climate, you may see your heaters come on a lot more often, negating any potential energy savings that you had previously gained. And, I don't change my T5 bulbs until approx. 18 months. Some of them are as old as 2 years, I try not to let them get that old, but sometimes I don't get to them as often as I should. Even with how long I run them, they grow coral just fine--maybe a little slower. As far as the 40's, that's probably a smart move. It's not only that you're going to be running them toned down, the flow pattern is considerably different. It's a lot wider. At least in my experience, I find that I can run my MP40's at a much higher setting, than an MP10 in a similar situation. IE: The MP10 can blow the tissue right off the coral, whereas the MP40 is considerably softer/wider. If you place your hand in front of each pump when it's running, you'll be able to understand. In one of my shallow tanks, I have 2 MP40's turned up to approx. 75%--in a tank that's only 36x24x12 tall. That same tank is running old whitebox MP40's that I bought about 4 years ago used, that were used for a couple years before that.. They're a little noisy, but I've never had an issue with them. I do zero maintenance on the wet/dry sides. To compare, my longest lasting Jebao pump has been about 18 months. The shortest, about 2. They've all required pretty regular cleanings as they all seemed to have experienced start-up issues. Eventually, they stopped spinning at all. Almost like the internal magnet demagnetized. It's not the impeller, or the power supplies either, as I've tried swapping brand new ones in from my large stock pile of Jebao pumps (I got in on one of the first group buys when they first came out). My experience is limited only to Jebao WP25, WP40, and DC12000 return pumps. Not sure about their newer pumps. The controls on the modern LED lights are nice.. being able to ramp up, control spectrum, change less bulbs, etc. But, from my experience, almost all lights will eventually have issues. Just like T5's and metal halides occasionally need bulbs and ballasts, LED's will get dimmer, pucks do go out, fans do stop working, drivers need to get changed out, firmware needs updating and can malfunction, etc. Granted you probably won't experience any issues for quite some time, that's not always the case and some particular brands have a better track record than others.. A more important question would be, what are you planning to put in the tank? In my opinion, if you're going to stick to softies and LPS, you'll probably be stoked with the LED's. That's what I keep in my led tanks, and everything does great, and has great color/growth. If you're going to eventually want a tank full of SPS, you may be dissapointed and have to eventually supplement your LED lighting. Not saying it can't be done, as there's plenty of people out there that have beautiful SPS tanks lit with LED's. You may find that there's just that one coral that you won't be able to keep alive, or colored up, that would otherwise do just fine in a tank with different lighting. I have multiple tanks lit by different lighting, that share the same water, in one system, and certain corals do night and day better in one tank vs another, with the lighting being the primary different variable. Perhaps I didn't acclimate them properly, or the placement was off, I don't know. At this point, it's much easier to just throw it in a tank and not worry about it dieing, or bleaching, or browning out. I've had way more consistent success sticking to tried and true lighting methods.. Just some more info to make your choices that much more confusing.. sorry! :wacko (2):

P.S. - I just realized this was in the Apex forum and I'm sorry to have taken your thread off-track by bringing up lighting. You can PM me if you have any questions on what I posted. You're welcome to come by in person and check out my tanks that are lit by different lighting.. LED vs MH vs T5. One thing for certain though, my APEX has been a great investment, and I'm not even using it any where near it's full potential.
 
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#10
Thank you Crystal for the long essay. Did you type all this on a phone or you are using a computer? I always enjoy reading your posts. Always something interesting to learn from you.
 
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#11
What did you end up getting LEANDRE? As far as the controller, and the power heads?

I just ordered two vortech mp10 w qd but I might be exchanging to two mp40's w qd for my 50 gallon artisan II coming insoon. I bought the radion xr30w gen II PRO and reeflink. Very excited about the light, and customization ability, just like the power heads.

Thanks for response or update of your system. and thoughts on your setup..

As far as thickness some members say it should be fine mounting a mp10 on up to 10 mm...and ecotech states specifically its good until 9.5 (might be for liability issues) but what is cool fact mentioned above is the wider flow patterns of the mp40. I think that would be cool for my cube tank since it has more depth than a standard rectangular tank...

eric
 
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