Why are so many LFS closing? Is the hobby shrinking?

rayray

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i was shopping on this site called socalireefs.com, and when I scrolled to the end of the thousands of sponsors (who have great deals) i discovered a forum section. my granpappy told me of these forums when he was a kid.

Sadly, the only LFS in my hood (Fumi's Tropical Fish) finally closed down. He was struggling since 2008; his sister's store in LA was subsidizing him. I bought from him weekly, even stuff I didn't need or could find half price online, but I couldn't support him by myself. I told him the online was cheaper, more convenient, had everything, & millennials were coming of age, this hobby is mostly 20-50 year old males.these kids have always had the convenience of mobile apps. Could a new hobbyist have a full tank without ever setting foot in an LFS? Yes! so now the reefing experience is all now online too: tank build thread, brag shots of LE frags, lots of likes. the cycle is complete.
 
T

tofucube

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#23
rayray said:
i was shopping on this site called socalireefs.com, and when I scrolled to the end of the thousands of sponsors (who have great deals) i discovered a forum section. my granpappy told me of these forums when he was a kid.

Sadly, the only LFS in my hood (Fumi's Tropical Fish) finally closed down. He was struggling since 2008; his sister's store in LA was subsidizing him. I bought from him weekly, even stuff I didn't need or could find half price online, but I couldn't support him by myself. I told him the online was cheaper, more convenient, had everything, & millennials were coming of age, this hobby is mostly 20-50 year old males.these kids have always had the convenience of mobile apps. Could a new hobbyist have a full tank without ever setting foot in an LFS? Yes! so now the reefing experience is all now online too: tank build thread, brag shots of LE frags, lots of likes. the cycle is complete.
Click to expand...
Like!
 
organism

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rayray said:
Could a new hobbyist have a full tank without ever setting foot in an LFS? Yes!
Click to expand...
I disagree... LFS imo are where most people actually see corals and tanks for the first time. It's the launch pad for entry into the hobby. Most people aren't going to see corals on TV or online and then research and buy everything online. They go to a shop, look around, ask questions and get a feel for things. After they get a tank then they'll probably do their buying online, but if the LFS die out we are screwed because this hobby has a high attrition rate and survives through LFS recruiting new people.

Personally I think the LFS are going to die out, membership in the hobby will plummet, the hype bubble will burst due to less new people getting conned into buying bs, and the shockwaves from that will take out some bigger wholesalers and equipment manufacturers.
 
dpoltsdsu

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I agree Miguel. It's a sad truth. Fewer fish stores correlates to fewer people in the hobby in my opinion.
 
theMerchant

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Most people including myself start from a nano tank (from what i read). I know my first tank came from a lfs.
Lfs need a new business model of 'rent to own' nano tanks. That way more people can try and get hooked on salt.

Sent from my SM-N910T using Tapatalk
 
A

aquabuddy

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Emac909 said:
I feel that the frag part of this hobby has killed the LFS. Every time I go to the LFS I see tanks and tanks of little 1/2" to 1" frag. I personally hate buying frags from shops. If I'm buying frags I'll get them from a hobbies. I want to buy a coral when I go to a LFS.
Especially sps when I first got into sps everything was brown. I loved buying brown sps and coloring them up. Now everything is super saturated with blue leds and sold as some LE bs tag it's sickening. I use to spend easy $600 a month at LFS back in the days. These days I barely spend $50 a month at LFS and I really can't tell you when the last time I actually bought a coral from one.
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Bingo!! I believe the secondary market is the cause of this: craigslist, ebay and local reef groups. Example, many hobbyists can find used items and livestock particularly frags for a much cheaper price and even trade amongst each other for free, Meanwhile local shops wanna charge you $80 for a coral frag the size of a golf ball. The internet or a large online store isn't quite the cause the way Amazon is killing brick and mortars. Its just that reef hobbyist particularly in large areas like Southern California can now bypass stores all together and go directly to the source by trading frags and buying used equipment amongst locals and hobby groups. If stores wanna stay in business, their livestock particularly coral needs too be much lower and match prices of traded pieces found in local reef groups and on craigslist.

Although, local stores are still needed for fish,most people cant breed and trade that and large items like tanks, saltwater and lighting.
 
cymaster007

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This is an interesting thread & topic. I wonder what would happen if the stores were to work together? Maybethey could negotiate a better price, and combine capital investments into developing a strong supply & distribution chain like Live Aquaria has done. They could even divide into 2x sections a large size/common coral section and then the higher end collector group. Even establishing a consignment setup & working with the hobbyists to ship and sell their frags all across the country for a small commission could be an opportunity for this business. They could also then look at minimizing the store-front commercial sq. ft. sizes unless its a high-traffic in-store demographic area so the brick & mortar shops are sized appropriately. A big grow facility could be central to the shops and deliver restock or ship directly out of LA.
 
F

Frop1

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I want to say economy.. My dad thinks also that he was making more money in the 80's then his kids are now. My guess is the next generation of reefers don't have the same spending money. Shops are closing here too.
 
jesuses

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#32
cymaster007 said:
This is an interesting thread & topic. I wonder what would happen if the stores were to work together? Maybethey could negotiate a better price, and combine capital investments into developing a strong supply & distribution chain like Live Aquaria has done. They could even divide into 2x sections a large size/common coral section and then the higher end collector group. Even establishing a consignment setup & working with the hobbyists to ship and sell their frags all across the country for a small commission could be an opportunity for this business. They could also then look at minimizing the store-front commercial sq. ft. sizes unless its a high-traffic in-store demographic area so the brick & mortar shops are sized appropriately. A big grow facility could be central to the shops and deliver restock or ship directly out of LA.
Click to expand...
So a co-op like they do with weed? It's seams like the way to go when growing things. If I grew something and sold it exclusively to a store it would help them out, and hopefully also be easier to sell things( even though it would most likely be at a lower cost).

The only problem I could think of is that we don't smoke corals, so once everyone has what they want and they can keep them alive they eventually stopped shopping less. I haven't bought coral in awhile, at least not like when I first started.
 
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knpickup

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TypicalWhiteAZN said:
adding on..

Recent closures:
Jim's Exotic Fish (El Segundo)
Pacific Reef (Torrance)
Neptunes Reef (Torrance)
Medusa (west LA)
Atlantis (Santa Barbara)
Phil Your Aquarium (Lake Forest)
Encinitas Tropical Fish(Encinitas)
The Fish and Frag Shack (Hemet)
Iconic Reef (Huntington Beach - relocated?)
Click to expand...

Iconic Reef relocated! Still waiting to hear about when they will open. I believe they mentioned they'll be open by appointment only.
 
cymaster007

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jesuses said:
So a co-op like they do with weed? It's seams like the way to go when growing things. If I grew something and sold it exclusively to a store it would help them out, and hopefully also be easier to sell things( even though it would most likely be at a lower cost).

The only problem I could think of is that we don't smoke corals, so once everyone has what they want and they can keep them alive they eventually stopped shopping less. I haven't bought coral in awhile, at least not like when I first started.
Click to expand...
Really good point, coral is not really a standard consumable item that needs to be replenished at regular intervals. The retailers would have to focus on making money from Salt mixes, media, bulbs, and other dry goods. I know that during the last recession some of the coral shops were staying open mainly through income from their cleaning/service side.
 
peter

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Im surprised to still see some small fish stores open, when i go in i usually see more than half of the tanks empty, and supplies are lacking or looks like theybe been there for years. I always wonder how do they even stay open..
 
cymaster007

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peter said:
Im surprised to still see some small fish stores open, when i go in i usually see more than half of the tanks empty, and supplies are lacking or looks like theybe been there for years. I always wonder how do they even stay open..
Click to expand...
Ive seen this too, could be a front for other things - drug trafficking or something? I also feel the same way about matress stores... they are always empty and how often do people really switch out their matresses?
 
F

Frop1

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peter said:
Im surprised to still see some small fish stores open, when i go in i usually see more than half of the tanks empty, and supplies are lacking or looks like theybe been there for years. I always wonder how do they even stay open..
Click to expand...
Ya but where I live there are no fish only petstores. Always fish and other pets. Mainly petco/petsmart and a random store called Kritters. Unless you're in a more wealthy area like Temecula then they have 3 fish only stores (which adds to my economy theory....).
 
A

Ausndani7

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Economy is the easiest way to answer the question. People don't have us much money these days and everyone wants to save a buck. Who wants to pay double the price. The stores can no longer compete with the online deals.
 
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