Mixing Meds in QT question??

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#1
I set up a QT last night to treat the Velvet. All I have for the moment is Cupramine. I ordered some Chloroquine Phosphate, but it'll take a few days to get here. When it does, caan the 2 be mixed? Or do I need to do a water change and run a bunch of carbon to get rid of the Cupramine before dosing the CP?

Also, I'm reading that after 2 weeks, the fish should be moved to a sterile, second QT for observation for 2 weeks, before being returned tho the DT. I was planning on keeping the Angel in QT for at least 60 days, as I have 2 fish in the DT unaffected, and can't get them out. Can I keep the Angel in QT for 30 days with meds? Rather than moving to a new tank? From what I've read, a longer treatment can likely be needed. Thanks for any help in advance!
 
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#2
Velvet is pretty easy to treat but needs to be done immediately otherwise kill the fish very quick.
Cupramine is the only thing you need, follow the instruction and test for Copper to make sure you have the correct concentration.
Let the fish be there for 3 weeks with the medication and done.

On the side note, there is no way other fish in DT won't get affected. When you have any strain of parasite in DT, it will be there unless you let the DT fish-less for at least 4 weeks.
Even if you treat the Angel and back to DT, with any stress fish get sick again.
 
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#3
I set up a QT last night to treat the Velvet. All I have for the moment is Cupramine. I ordered some Chloroquine Phosphate, but it'll take a few days to get here. When it does, caan the 2 be mixed? Or do I need to do a water change and run a bunch of carbon to get rid of the Cupramine before dosing the CP?

Also, I'm reading that after 2 weeks, the fish should be moved to a sterile, second QT for observation for 2 weeks, before being returned tho the DT. I was planning on keeping the Angel in QT for at least 60 days, as I have 2 fish in the DT unaffected, and can't get them out. Can I keep the Angel in QT for 30 days with meds? Rather than moving to a new tank? From what I've read, a longer treatment can likely be needed. Thanks for any help in advance!
ive done this before regularly with good results. The goal of using multiple medications simultaneously is to hit the velvet parasite double hard, at different points of its physiology, to have a higher success rate and also to kill the tougher parasite strains than one medication alone at a time could achieve. Keep in mind the fish organs also get hit harder, so if the fish isnt healthy the meds might kill it. if the disease looks like it will kill the fish anyway, I always felt I had nothing to loose- then I just try to feed the fish a lot and reduce stress to help it out. Just watch the fish closely and fine tune your fish whispering skills.

But to answer your question, there is no aquarium medication compatibility chart that I am aware of. You can just mix 2-3ml of each medication in a cup and see if they form an insoluble precipitate, then add tank water and see if it re-dissolves. If it forms an solid precipitate that doesnt dissolve, safe to say the medication wont be active. In your case copper-amine(-) and chloroquine-phosphate(-) you would worry if copper-phosphate and chloroquine-amine form are insoluble in salt water, get it? Im thinking if you dose them 4 hours apart and they fully dissolve you should be ok.

HTH
 
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#4
ive done this before regularly with good results. The goal of using multiple medications simultaneously is to hit the velvet parasite double hard, at different points of its physiology, to have a higher success rate and also to kill the tougher parasite strains than one medication alone at a time could achieve. Keep in mind the fish organs also get hit harder, so if the fish isnt healthy the meds might kill it. if the disease looks like it will kill the fish anyway, I always felt I had nothing to loose- then I just try to feed the fish a lot and reduce stress to help it out. Just watch the fish closely and fine tune your fish whispering skills.

But to answer your question, there is no aquarium medication compatibility chart that I am aware of. You can just mix 2-3ml of each medication in a cup and see if they form an insoluble precipitate, then add tank water and see if it re-dissolves. If it forms an solid precipitate that doesnt dissolve, safe to say the medication wont be active. In your case copper-amine(-) and chloroquine-phosphate(-) you would worry if copper-phosphate and chloroquine-amine form are insoluble in salt water, get it? Im thinking if you dose them 4 hours apart and they fully dissolve you should be ok.

HTH
Thank you for your input. I'll have my fiance read your response, he'll understand it better than me.I do get what you're saying, but he'd better understand and be able to evaluate. You would think in all the articles about treatment, it would say if the two can safely be combined. I read articles that talk about not combining other certain meds, but nothing about these two.
 
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#5
Velvet is pretty easy to treat but needs to be done immediately otherwise kill the fish very quick.
Cupramine is the only thing you need, follow the instruction and test for Copper to make sure you have the correct concentration.
Let the fish be there for 3 weeks with the medication and done.

On the side note, there is no way other fish in DT won't get affected. When you have any strain of parasite in DT, it will be there unless you let the DT fish-less for at least 4 weeks.
Even if you treat the Angel and back to DT, with any stress fish get sick again.
I appreciate what you're saying, and have heavily considered this. getting the 6 Line out just isn't an option though. With regards to the Mandarin, they're pretty resistant to just about anything. Neither have been affected since this started, which was a solid 3 weeks ago. I plan on letting my DT run for at least twice the time period as you would a fallow, and keep a close eye on things. Not all fish are always affected by a parasite or disease, although can be carriers. This is my only option. I'll have the QT up for as long as I need it. Hopefully, if I do everything right, this will be the last of it. Tearing your reef apart to try and catch a single fish isn't much of an option :/
 
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#6
Since it's a bit undetermined if the two can be combined, which option should I go with?

Option:1 Treat with Cupramine for 2 weeks, then do water change and carbon to get the Cupramine out, then start treatment with CP?

Option:2 Just stick with Cupramine, and if after 3 weeks things look good, let him sit for 2 more weeks? He hasn't been hit with the Velvet quite as bad as the 3 others.

Option:3 Should I get the Cupramine out now, and just treat with CP when it gets here?

I guess that's what it boils down too.
 

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#7
From your 3options, I would go with option #2. Finish the copper treatment at therapeutic levels for at least 4 weeks then observe after.

However the other two fish that can't be removed from the ft may cause issues for you later. They can either be not showing any signs now but may later or they could have developed immunity to it but could be carriers of the disease.

The best thing to do is kill the diesease in the tank by starving it out or you could be dealing with this again.


If you absolutely can't get the two fish out, then I'd be very careful adding new fish to the tank. I'd do the black molly test. Acclimate a black molly to salt water, then add to the tank. If velvet is still in the tank, they would probably get infected pretty fast.
If not, then you're probably in the clear.
 
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From your 3options, I would go with option #2. Finish the copper treatment at therapeutic levels for at least 4 weeks then observe after.

However the other two fish that can't be removed from the ft may cause issues for you later. They can either be not showing any signs now but may later or they could have developed immunity to it but could be carriers of the disease.

The best thing to do is kill the diesease in the tank by starving it out or you could be dealing with this again.


If you absolutely can't get the two fish out, then I'd be very careful adding new fish to the tank. I'd do the black molly test. Acclimate a black molly to salt water, then add to the tank. If velvet is still in the tank, they would probably get infected pretty fast.
If not, then you're probably in the clear.
Thank you for your response. I was figuring that's probably the best option at this point. Especially since the Angel didn't get hit as hard. I think if I let the tank sit long enough with just the 2 fish with no symptoms, the Velvet should wear itself out. My understanding is that it doesn't have the same dormancy as Ich, although that may not be accurate. I'll have to take the chance. Best I can do is wait extra long. I never considered the Molly theory. How long does it take roughly, to acclimate them to salt? Can it be any color Molly? Thanks again. I seem to be stuck in a bit of a guessing game here.
 

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#10
Clicked post accidentally.

Any molly should be fine, but I would do black mollies. If they showed the dust like spots, it would be easier to see.

As for dormancy, the concern is while you can't see any symptoms, it doesn't mean it's not there. Your fish may just be fighting it off since they built up immunity.

It is gamble so if you're set on leaving them there, just add the molly and see what happens. I could be wrong and velvet is not in the tank.
 
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Clicked post accidentally.

Any molly should be fine, but I would do black mollies. If they showed the dust like spots, it would be easier to see.

As for dormancy, the concern is while you can't see any symptoms, it doesn't mean it's not there. Your fish may just be fighting it off since they built up immunity.

It is gamble so if you're set on leaving them there, just add the molly and see what happens. I could be wrong and velvet is not in the tank.
That's a really smart idea with the black Molly. I think I'll do that when the time comes around. The hardest part about reefing is that there aren't always answers. One last question, how hard are Mollies to catch to get them out of the tank? I really don't want one in there permanently lol.
 

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#12
They're relatively slow so shouldn't be an issue but if you want to play safe, put them in an acclimation box so you can take them out easily.

One last thing if you go this route. Make sure you acclimate yourself. Do not use mollies that are already acclimated. You could be adding fish that have saltwater diseases.
 
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#13
They're relatively slow so shouldn't be an issue but if you want to play safe, put them in an acclimation box so you can take them out easily.

One last thing if you go this route. Make sure you acclimate yourself. Do not use mollies that are already acclimated. You could be adding fish that have saltwater diseases.
Good point. I'll definitely acclimate myself. I saw a thread on here for shroom boxes and am going to make one for myself. I'll get an extra large piece of Lexan and make an acclimation box while I'm at it ;) Thanks again for your input. I always tell people there's no black and white thinking when it comes to saltwater, it's a very colorful world. All we can do is share our knowledge and experience.
 
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#14
Update : Tonight I'm supposed to do the second dose of Cupramine, however, the Angelfish has developed a small red spot near his tail, likely bacterial infection (maybe Vibriosis). My order of CP won't be here til Tuesday. I've had these spots before on fish and they went away naturally. An article I read says that obviously stress and illness are factors, as well as copper treatment. With this said, would it be better to hold off on copper and switch to CP? I'm at a loss here since I haven't had to do a QT and copper before. Thanks again for everyone's help!
 

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