To start over or not? I need advice guys...

djam

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#21
I was having the same issue, it would flourish and hten go bad. We would do a big water change and then go back to our regular schedule. I was getting frustrated, it would be good for a few weeks, I'd buy some coral and then it would go down.

Ultimately my wife suggested getting a service, which was the best thing we ever did...he comes weekly and does pretty mcuh the same stuff I did, but every week, there is no skipping a week here and there... and more importantly he is managing the additives. THe tank is awesome again and I enjoy it, and don't have to dedicate the 1-2 hours every week to make water and do the cleaning. It is a 240+180g sump, so water changes were 40 gallons.. a pain.

I probably lost the same amount in corals as the difference between his service and my doing it myself...40g of salt is 1/5th of a bucket, plus water...

Just a thought.

Most importantly I get to enjoy my tank.
 
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#22
Sorry guy, had a busy weekend. Tested my water tonight and this is what i got.

1290 mag
kh 7.0
nitrates 50ppm
ph 7.5
phosphate 0
cal 430
Salinity 1.25

My light is 12" above the water. I've been thinking about lowering it but i get more shadowing it seems. I have it set to come on at 11 am and ramp up to 100% blue and 80% white at 3pm and then ramp down at 6pm till off at 11pm.

I do need a better light for the sump. That orbit does a good job lighting the sump area but that's about it. Also need a fan down there. Think that will help my PH.

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#23
As for fish i have a blue tang, powder grey tang, clown fish, and a melenarus wrasse. I pretty sure the wrasse is the problem to my clean up crew being MIA. All started after i got it.

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#24
Your Alk is low as in borderline tank crash low. If you are dosing two part and have it pegged at 7.0 then you might get away with it, but if it's swinging below that, then, that could be a big part of the problem. Alk will drop naturally so this could be an issue that it's dropping dangerously low and then the water change restores to borderline again. Your Calcium level is a little high for the Alk to be low like that. Are you dosing to replenish Alk and Calcium or just relying on water changes for that? Also, are you dosing anything at all? What salt are you using?
 
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#25
Alk is low, but it is not what bothers me. The pH is outside parameters. It needs to get up to at least 7.8, and should be 8.0

What salt mix are you using? How often are you water changing?

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Smite

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#26
Sorry guy, had a busy weekend. Tested my water tonight and this is what i got.

1290 mag
kh 7.0
nitrates 50ppm
ph 7.5
phosphate 0
cal 430
Salinity 1.25

My light is 12" above the water. I've been thinking about lowering it but i get more shadowing it seems. I have it set to come on at 11 am and ramp up to 100% blue and 80% white at 3pm and then ramp down at 6pm till off at 11pm.

I do need a better light for the sump. That orbit does a good job lighting the sump area but that's about it. Also need a fan down there. Think that will help my PH.

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I have a par30 or 38 LED red/blue grow lamp if you need it, let me know. I wonder if the lack of phosphates are stunting your macro growth along lack of light. Is there an abundance of algae in the DT? Seems strange to have such a high level of nitrates without some kind of phosphate level. You'd think over feeding or a lot of detritus would lead to both unless a bunch of alage is sucking up all the po4.


I agree, try and raise your alk up to 8 or 9. That way you have a cushion for a swing or an inaccurate test kit. I've had 2 salifert kits read a little off from one another. At 7 you have no cushion which could be contributing to the problem.
 
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#27
On the same note, always run your tests, esp when experiencing problems, at least 3 times. Stay out of dead zones (water current) while running them, because areas of tanks, even nanos, can have different results, esp, in corners.

Personally, i use the seachem and red sea test kits. They both have their pluses and minuses, but if you have a mind for general chemistry procedures, theyre easy to avoid miscalculations on.

That being said, you need to test 3 times with parametera like that. And then, go out and buy the kent 2 part nano kit. It is the easiest to use in a tank of your size.


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#28
Your Alk is low as in borderline tank crash low. If you are dosing two part and have it pegged at 7.0 then you might get away with it, but if it's swinging below that, then, that could be a big part of the problem. Alk will drop naturally so this could be an issue that it's dropping dangerously low and then the water change restores to borderline again. Your Calcium level is a little high for the Alk to be low like that. Are you dosing to replenish Alk and Calcium or just relying on water changes for that? Also, are you dosing anything at all? What salt are you using?
I do not dose anything. I just do water changes. And i use red sea salt. I do get a bit of algae growth on my glass and have to scrape it off every few days.

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#29
Alk is low, but it is not what bothers me. The pH is outside parameters. It needs to get up to at least 7.8, and should be 8.0

What salt mix are you using? How often are you water changing?

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I do 10 gallon change on sundays and try to do another 5 gallon on Wednesday when i change my sock. Ive noticed the PH has slowly been dropping over time. Was wondering if its because i haven't replaced the sump fan since it stop working.

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#30
So, you are doin what amounts to an average of 20% water change every week with premium sea salt.

Something does not add up at all.

What kind of hygrometer (salt meter) are you using? Are you using a refractometer? Are you checking it with a calibration solution?

Something is clearly off.

MY tank alk is also low, but all other parameters are good, so I dose somewhat regularly with a 2 part solution.

I hypothesize that your calibration of your hygrometer is off, because all your chemistry is ridiculously low for such a premium salt.

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#31
Im going to double down that your calibration in your salt metric is off.

http://saltwateraquariumblog.com/best-aquarium-salt-mix-review-popular-reef-salt-mix-options/

At 1.23, red sea is supposed to be 450/1340 for calcium/magnesium.

You are saying that you are reading 1.25. Your proportion adds up closer to 1.23, especially when considering water source changing alkalinity, as well as base rock and substrate adjusting alkalinity as well.

Lets get you a new refractometer and/or calibrate it with a good salinity solution.

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Smite

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#32
I do not dose anything. I just do water changes. And i use red sea salt. I do get a bit of algae growth on my glass and have to scrape it off every few days.

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Is that red sea regular or red sea coral pro?

You parameters aren't too far off from the regular blue bucket. That's what I use and a fresh batch mixes around 7.5-8 tested with salifert. I use the regular because it meets my demands with a calcium reactor and I like to run a lower alk level.
http://www.redseafish.com/red-sea-salts/red-sea-salt/

If youre using RSCP then your levels do seem low for 20% weekly water changes.
http://www.redseafish.com/red-sea-salts/coral-pro-salt/
 
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#33
Im going to double down that your calibration in your salt metric is off.

http://saltwateraquariumblog.com/best-aquarium-salt-mix-review-popular-reef-salt-mix-options/

At 1.23, red sea is supposed to be 450/1340 for calcium/magnesium.

You are saying that you are reading 1.25. Your proportion adds up closer to 1.23, especially when considering water source changing alkalinity, as well as base rock and substrate adjusting alkalinity as well.

Lets get you a new refractometer and/or calibrate it with a good salinity solution.

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I have a rafractometer and bought calibration solution. Also have a probe on my reefkeeper. I double checked with my mother in laws refractometer as well.

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#34
Is that red sea regular or red sea coral pro?

You parameters aren't too far off from the regular blue bucket. That's what I use and a fresh batch mixes around 7.5-8 tested with salifert. I use the regular because it meets my demands with a calcium reactor and I like to run a lower alk level.
http://www.redseafish.com/red-sea-salts/red-sea-salt/

If youre using RSCP then your levels do seem low for 20% weekly water changes.
http://www.redseafish.com/red-sea-salts/coral-pro-salt/
It is coral pro. I'll do another test on my water tomorrow. Those last readings where before my water change.

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#36
It's a good rule of thumb to always check Alk, Calcium, Mg and Sg of at least the first batch of when you crack open a new bucket of salt. A bad batch can cause issues. I agree it sounds like you need to bring up the Alk to the 8 to 9 range to give yourself a buffer. Then you will likely want to use a two parts system or maybe kalkwasser to stabilize your alk and calcium chemistry. Hopefully those adjustment will help to bring up the pH a bit and then the focus would be on getting the nitrates under control. Check out this link http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2002/11/chemistry
 

reefes pieces

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#37
Wow you use Red Sea coral pro and ur all is that low? Do you thoroughly mix the salt bucket before you make salt water? If not make sure you do as certain parts of the salt can settle in the bucket. And agree ur ph is pretty low. You can get away with low alk if u keep it stable but being that low and knowing Red Sea pro has pretty high alk in it means something's going on between water changes. Also how do you mix your water? I know RSCP needs a little time to stabilize before making water changes.
 
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#38
Put some mangroves in your sump and let them take off. They keep my nitrates and phosphates in check.

Also, I live in downtown L.A. and my tap water is above 600 TDS so just going by that, I change my blue membrane on my RODI unit every 4 months, I change the 2 coconut fiber cartridges every 2 to 3 months, and I change my carbon cartridge between the 1 and 2 month mark. I have a TDS meter and going by my own RODI maintenance schedule, my water never reads above 5. If my water is at or above 5, I know I have to change something out. It's stuff you learn along the way.

I hope this information helps you.
 
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#39
[MENTION=10185]chrono[/MENTION] -- Alright homie, I've got a good chunk of info for you. I'm keeping all my information based on my personal experiences fixing the issues you have now, that I had to fix myself. You've got a lot of solid advice here, so I'm going to throw out my 2 cents on some of the problems I think could easily be fixed, and give you a healthy, happy system.



Big believer in the Bulk Reef Supply: "52 weeks of reefing" series. If I can convince you of ANYTHING, it would be to watch that series, at the very least the ones that pertain to your problem itself. I've been keeping fish since I was 5 years old man, I didn't expect to learn anything from these videos -- I was wrong. Watching these videos has had the largest impact on my reefkeeping than any advice given by anybody -- Because it showed me not only products, but different methods, and a deeper understanding based on science.

Most of these videos are 10-12 minutes, one or two of them are much longer (SPS video is 37 minutes). They have so much good information in them, it's very worth the time.

My bad for making you watch your vegetables, but the information is actually stellar.



About Nitrates: Your nitrates are high. Now, having high nitrates within itself is not a bad thing at all. But the fact that they keep creeping upwards of 50, while you actively combat it, tells me you haven't addressed the issue. Personally -- I believe the issue is your sand bed. At 3", you've got a lot of sand.. But the sand itself may not be the only issues. A list of things which could be responsible are.

- Food / Feeding habits
- Sand Bed / Not vacuuming sand (firm believer, I always vaccum my sand)
- Dirty RO/DI water
- Not enough sacrifices to the reefing gods (Anyone who says they don't feel this way once or twice is lying!)

A member here [MENTION=8656]M3ace9[/MENTION] has amazing looking SPS, and he keeps his no3 at 40+. Personally, I saw tremendous coloration improvement and overall coral health by getting my No3 stabilized at 25. Lately after my corals had recovered from the shock of my accidental ULNS (Ultra low nutrient system) I wanted to clean my tank up a bit more, so I had used Aquaforest Pro Bio S -- This absolutely wiped my no3 out completely down to 0, and did so very quickly..

If you wish your nitrates to be in a better area to suit your needs, I would say the first things to look into is slowly removing 1.5" of that sand, maybe 2".. Which sounds extreme. When you have 1-1.25" sand left, I would start vacuuming the sand when you do a water change from here on out. If you're trying to get a hand up on your nitrates, bacterias are absolutely effective, as is carbon dosing (Vodka, Vinegar) to help boost your bacterias.



Sand Bed: Your sand bed -- at 3", your sand bed is skirting the line between a "Deep Sand Bed" (DSB), which requires more work than regular sand beds, and is a nutrient sink without that kind of care. I think this will help with your nutrient issue, and having less sand means you can vacuum without having a huge bacterial bloom and nuking your tank (When I was in middle school, this is how I nuked my first reef. 4" Sand Bed, total obliteration from stirring the sand too much overnight).

My Cerith snails have slowly disappeared after adding my Melanurus as well. You need some snails to mix up the sand you do have.

Here is the BRS sand video


Properly Utilizing your Sump: You're correct, in that your sump is a little small.. But it can easily be modified without hassle to suit your needs. I'm talking getting a plastic cutting board, taking a saw to it, and siliconing that in a few spots to split a chamber or something like that. This is very simple, and pretty self explanatory, and 100x easier than cutting up glass. $10 will get you a caulk sized tube of silicone, and going to the 99 cent store will get you really cheap, thin cutting boards. A snip here or there and you can split up a large / pointless chamber, or divert flow to make it run to prefered chambers in the order that best makes sense.

Additionally, I would consider removing that section with sand and rubble and filling it with Seachem Matrix, or Siporax (bio-media). If you go this route I would heavily suggest putting it into DIY egg crate box, so it can be easily removed, or shaken around to loosen up detritus (my SPS freaking love this).

Here's the BRS 52 weeks video of Sumps

This sounds like a big pain in the arse.. It's a pretty light PITA, and utilizing your sump properly will give you much more control over your mini environment.



Refugium
: The light you have is not helping your cheato. You're going to want something either in the warm spectrum (6500k) or a Red/Blue horticulture light. This will help your Cheato take off, for sure. It sounds like [MENTION=7067]Smite[/MENTION] is putting you on the right path, everything he said is rock solid -- I will also say when I was dosing nitrates, my p04 was always zero. Always. And I almost never had any Algae in my display, until I switched up to higher quality foods and Selcon. This sparked some algae growth, even though my p04 remained zero. Sometimes whats going on in our tanks is an oxymoron, or at least defies central thought. But I can tell you going 0 to 50 no3 made no difference on algae, conversely i'm right now at 0 no3/po4, and had an algae explosion after investing in higher quality food/selcon. Aggressive bacteria dosing and GFO are fighting it off pretty well.

BRS 52 weeks Refugium video



Alkalinity: Your alkalinity is a little low.. Honestly, I'm a HUGE fan of Kalkwasser. It helps regulate Alkalinity, Calcium, and pH stability. Nothing has made a bigger impact on my coral health than Kalk has.

The easiest way to implement Kalk is to mix 1-2 TSP per gallon into your ATO. It's also important to keep your ATO pump .5-1" off the bottom of the container. The reason is the Kalk slurry at the bottom will eat your pump. This will GREATLY help you out, it's dirt cheap, it's easy to maintain, and because you CANNOT run a reef without the foundation being stability.

BRS 52 weeks: Calcium, Alkalinity, and Magnesium
BRS 52 weeks: Kalkwasser
BRS 52 weeks: 2-Part dosing



SPS -- "Stability Promotes Success": That saying needs to be taken to heart. It's absolutely true, the goal is to have very little swing in every measurable parameter. You can run SPS in a handful of different environments, some people run ULNS, some run high nutrient, LED, T5, Halide, lower alk, higher alk -- THere's like 1000 ways to skin this cat.. The big thing here is that you absolutely NEED stability.

You WILL struggle if you 'don't dose anything'. You WILL struggle, if your Alk is too low for your Nutrient load. Example -- people who run ULNS run lower Alk, and higher nutrient run higher Alk -- Both work, but each style has an almost unspoken set of 'rules' to follow.

BRS 52 weeks: SPS corals



Yay! You finished reading my giant arse post! Celebrate by watching 52 weeks of reefing lol
 
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#40
Mag 1350
calcium 420
nitrate .10
Phosphates 0
PH 8.2
KH 7.5
Salinity 1.25

Sorry. Had to get another phone since my old one had a data connection Problem, so was not able to get on here for the last week. I have done a couple more test and these are the readings i got. My nitrates have been on a slow decline and our the lowest they have ever been. I also lowered the light and turned them down a hair so it wasnt a shock. Still had a couple coral get unhappy with the change and others loved it. Gotta be up in 6 hours so will read through all the replys tomorrow when i have a minute. Just wanted to post my readings before i forget.


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