quick cycle question

cowboycove · Jan 22, 2013

My tank has been ruuning for a week now. I was totally looking forward to having it semi stocked for the superbowl party. I read a lot of the cycle thread but there's just too much. I'm using live rock from my original tank excluding 2 pieces. And I've already put in a few xenias and toadstools to see if it'll die. So far its still alive. I have no idea how to check ammonia and nitrate. Probably a kit which I don't have. Phosphate is prfect so far. Better than my old tank. Should the xenias and toadstools die if it starts to cycle (ammonia/nitrate spike)? Forgot there's a mini rbta in there I can't get out and a bunch of snail. Also threw in half a shrimp in a scheer clothe. And is water change necessary? And recommendations? Patience won't fill the tank by super bowl. Hahaha

Super Mickey · Jan 22, 2013

Some display take more then one week to cycle. Was the rock is stilll a live? What about your water was from the old tank as well?

Assyrian fish guy · Jan 22, 2013

the test you dont have you need to get. i would wait a month b4 i add anything to the tank. there are no short cuts in this hobby. time and more time will pay off in the long time. good luck

Surgical · Jan 22, 2013

Only way to be sure is to test for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate. Once ammonia goes to zero, nitrite will rise. Once nitrite goes to zero, nitrates will rise. They will shoot up pretty high and go down to a more acceptable level. If your rocks are already live, putting a shrimp in there probably wont make it go any faster, it will just be a source of more waste. Just let nature take its course, and cross your fingers! I know how hard it is to wait to be able to add stock, so hang in there!!!

cowboycove · Jan 22, 2013

gaby_N_yeyo said:

Live rock. Took my 90 down and set up the new tank right away. Half old water half new.

Assyrian and surgical.. thanks. I thought I get that. Hahaha. Will do. Maybe ill throw in a pair of damsels by then and go fowlr for a day. Thanks and ill pick up a test kit as well.

cowboycove · Jan 22, 2013

I have a heater set to 72. Does temp matter while cycling. No heater will drop the temp to 60-65. Also have the skimmer on. Its probably useless now. Should I turn it off? And do I need a little light or just go dark for a month?

Six2seven · Jan 22, 2013

turn off the skimmer, you can leave the light on since you have a couple corals in there. add a chromis or two not damsels. you will eventually want those damsels out of the tank.

BeanMachine · Jan 22, 2013

Its possible the tank may not cycle. But if you used new sand or stirred up your old stuff you may have a small one. But yes you need to test for ammonia, etc. just get a dip strip test kit they are cheap and have all those tests on one stick.

I wouldn't stock too many fish before super bowl hehe sorry

jarmochin · Jan 22, 2013

cowboycove said:

In my experience, your coral would 'close-up' if your ammonia gets too high. If it continues to stay at an extreme level, you will start to see die-offs. I strongly suggest you get the API basic test kit, it will contain all the recommended tests that should be taken once a week.

cowboycove said:

If you honestly wish to attempt to stock before the Superbowl (which would be extremely chancy), I would continue to do large water changes to help get ammonia down and deal with any spikes. Honestly though, only time and Patience can properly cycle a tank.

solitude127 · Jan 22, 2013

Take your water to a LFS and they can test for ammonia and nitrite for you. Depending on where you go, they may charge a buck a test

cowboycove · Jan 22, 2013

Ok. Ill wait. Hahaha. Don't want to risk killing any fish. And are damsels that bad? I had one and he did harrass the crap out of all the other fish. I couldn't catch him either. I couldn't wait for him to die. Sad to say. One day the lion fish caught him for me =)

So rock and sand release ammonia/nitrates if not live yet. Correct?
And rock/sand is required for natural filtration?
And is a controlled tempurature currently required since there's no live stock?

Reefomeez · Jan 22, 2013

cowboycove said:

Yeah, I'd stay away from the damsels...I've heard story after story with bad results. And most people want to get rid of them but can't. Chromis might be a more peaceful option.

Your questions:
-Rock and sand don't necessarily release ammonia/nitrates. The living stuff on/in rock/sand that dies off releases ammonia. Your bacteria turns that into nitrite and then into nitrate. Even though you can't see it there is either live stuff that dies (if you got live rock to start) or dead stuff on/in the rock/sand if you got it dead to start with.
-Sand isn't necessarily required although it does add some filtration capability. But there's plenty of bare bottom tanks that have great natural filtration. Rock you definitely need. You could use a ton of other surface area filter media but rock also allows you to aquascape. The bacteria you need for natural filtration lives in the nooks and crannies of the rock so that's why it's good.
-Yes temp is important right now. There are living things in there (assuming you used either live rock or live sand to start OR started with dead but seeded with someone else's sand/rock). Those living things are used to the reef temps so you need to go ahead and add a heater. In fact without one you may kill more little fauna which in turn increases your ammonia and so on.

Hope that helps. Good luck! (and post pics)

Surgical · Jan 22, 2013

cowboycove said:

No, the bacteria just need time to colonize so that they can convert waste. The nitrite eating bacteria dont form until te ammonia eating bacteria are established, because they feed on the byproduct of the ammonia(nitrite).

Bacteria grow faster in higher temps to a certain extent. Think of why we refridgerate food, to slow the growth of bacteria. Same principle applies.

Sorry i typed this this morning but didnt hit send i kinda said the same thig lol

Super Mickey · Jan 22, 2013

BeanMachine said:

I agree with been I don't think his tank is going to cycle at all he just transfer everything over so well may be a littleeeee one.

Super Mickey · Jan 22, 2013

It's the skimmer accting? normal if so don't turn off

cowboycove · Jan 22, 2013

Reefomeez.. thanks for the excellant details. Now I understand what rock and sand is used for. I never understood it at all. I just knew we needed rock. I thought I needed sand. I hope this helps another newbie wanting to understand the reef eco system a little more.

Ssurgical.. thank you very much as well. Makes a lot of sense. I just never thought of it like that.

Yeyo.. yes its just bubbling like normal but no waste. I think ill just turn it off for now.

Ill give it the full month to be safe!

mr_bigl · Jan 22, 2013

i know this may be against all the above post. but i used Dr Tims One and Only and my cycle was just a few hours. Added a clown fish per his video instructions and no mis haps so far as far as spikes etc. GOing on 3 months now. I used 0 rock and sand from my other tank.

Reefomeez · Jan 22, 2013

cowboycove said:

Anytime!

The waiting totally sucks but in this hobby you have to learn to wait. Change needs to be slow, very slow. The Ocean has loads of water and ages to have matured. Your tank isn't nearly as stable and can't withstand the changes when they're drastic. When in doubt wait.

vamaro · Jan 22, 2013

Don't change water. Let it cycle first. If you used your old rock and sand it probably won't cycle much or at all. However, if you only added the rock, you may see a small cycle. I would not add anything until you get some test kits. Things go bad when people rush in this hobby.

Super Mickey · Jan 22, 2013

Ok but i think 1moth its too long to leavea off but its up to you and dont need to do a water chage wait one moth then take ur water to local store for check out and then do the wc but thats just me
the im out guys

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