I'd like your opinion on a new reefing service.

erickjohnsonaz

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#1
I've been reading a lot of buying and selling threads on the forum and found that people don't want to drive to pick stuff up and don't want to deliver stuff.

I've been thinking about a pickup and delivery service for fish, coral and gear. At this point it would not include large items like tanks, but eventually it may include full tank moves as the service grows. I would schedule a route for multiple pickups and deliveries on specific days.

What is your opinion? Would you use such a service? What would you be willing to pay for such a service, if it was available? Who should pay the party selling or buying or both?

What do you see as the terms of the service being? What do you see as the pitfalls of such a service?

Should the service include a overnight or longer term holding service? Could it incorporate the QT service I already have running? i.e. Pick up a fish and QT it then deliver it? Of course the fish may not survive the QT process. What would be the liability of that? There would need to be a contract and release of liability involved.
 

djrice69

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#2
Sounds like a good idea or hold my corals if I am at work and corals have been shipped over night and the corals need to be out of the bag and given new water and flow with delivery later in the day. Coral baby sitter after overnight delivery
 

erickjohnsonaz

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#3
Sounds like a good idea or hold my corals if I am at work and corals have been shipped over night and the corals need to be out of the bag and given new water and flow with delivery later in the day. Coral baby sitter after overnight delivery
Yes, that is another idea as well! Thank you!
 
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#5
I think a pitfall you might run into is if when the buyer receives the item it does not work, but the seller swears it worked when he listed it. Who is on the hook? You would have to become responsible for testing items from buyers, or have something in place for these occurrences before they happen.

Personally I think the buyer or seller could pay, but if I listed an item for $50 and someone wants it delivered to their house there is no way I am taking money off my price for that.

If it doesn't include larger items like tanks, or same day livestock delivery I don't see it being fruitful. We already have Fedex for delivering smaller items, and if one needed it the same day, there is always Uber. So those would be your competition. I can courrier an item across town pretty reasonably now.

Good luck with it!
 

erickjohnsonaz

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I think a pitfall you might run into is if when the buyer receives the item it does not work, but the seller swears it worked when he listed it. Who is on the hook? You would have to become responsible for testing items from buyers, or have something in place for these occurrences before they happen.

Personally I think the buyer or seller could pay, but if I listed an item for $50 and someone wants it delivered to their house there is no way I am taking money off my price for that.

If it doesn't include larger items like tanks, or same day livestock delivery I don't see it being fruitful. We already have Fedex for delivering smaller items, and if one needed it the same day, there is always Uber. So those would be your competition. I can courrier an item across town pretty reasonably now.

Good luck with it!
Thank you for the comments. I very much appreciate them! Additional information, please!

Yes, The disputes would need to be between the buyer and seller. Like with any other delivery service (FedEx, UPS, Courier, Uber) the buyer or seller wouldn't be able to hold the driver responsible for items. I can see I will need a contract. I was hoping to do it without, but, as you point out, it may be be necessary in the society we live in today.

Secondly, if you are selling a $50 item what would you expect to pay Uber, FedEx or a local courier to deliver it for you? Could you increase the price of the item to say $75 and say delivery is included within some amount of miles or pickup for $50? Please remember this is a service for those that don't want to go pick up a fish or coral from a seller or deliver it to a buyer.

What would you pay FedEx, Uber a local Courier to pick up and deliver, same day, corals or fish for you or would you not consider these services? None of these services has the climate controlled storage/transport facilities or life support knowledge that would make easy same day transport, so there is additional risk there. What are you thoughts? Would your rather use a service dedicated to life support of these animals or Uber?

I'm thinking of a service that would show up with bags for fish, containers for coral, etc, ready to go.
 
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#8
I think it’s a nice idea but not one that’s feasible. People are not willing to pay enough for the service to cover time, gas, and wear and tear on the vehicle. since you already have a QT setup, i’d get a sponsor account on Reef2Reef and sell high end, full QT fish and ship them out to people. I’d put fish up for sale that has gone through the QT and is ready to go. Instead of selling it and having them wait. tons of whales on R2R.
 

erickjohnsonaz

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#9
I think it’s a nice idea but not one that’s feasible. People are not willing to pay enough for the service to cover time, gas, and wear and tear on the vehicle. since you already have a QT setup, i’d get a sponsor account on Reef2Reef and sell high end, full QT fish and ship them out to people. I’d put fish up for sale that has gone through the QT and is ready to go. Instead of selling it and having them wait. tons of whales on R2R.
Thank you for the insight.

I really don't like shipping fish. I think it is hard on them. I've had them delivered from the wholesaler to me overnight, but I've decided to stop doing that, even. I'm going to pick them up.

I'm not really in this for the money. I do want to cover my costs, of course. Not necessary the time, but gas, wear and tear on a vehicle, etc. Maybe a little for my time.

I think that care for these animals needs to be our primary concern, not the cost involved. This is an expensive hobby. I don't want to make it more expensive, but better. I just wonder how much money we waste on life that dies because we don't take the time and spend the money to care for it properly.

We live in one of the largest most densely populated places on the planet. I think it would be really cool to try something to raise the care level of our pets.

I appreciate your comments!
 

erickjohnsonaz

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#10
I think it’s a nice idea but not one that’s feasible. People are not willing to pay enough for the service to cover time, gas, and wear and tear on the vehicle. since you already have a QT setup, i’d get a sponsor account on Reef2Reef and sell high end, full QT fish and ship them out to people. I’d put fish up for sale that has gone through the QT and is ready to go. Instead of selling it and having them wait. tons of whales on R2R.
Thank you for the comment!

Would you be willing to add some numbers of what you might be willing to pay for a service like this? I'm not asking for a commitment to this service, just a feeling of what it would be worth to you.

Don't worry about what you think it would cost to do a service like this, just what the value to you would be and how much that would translate to in actual dollars.

I may have some other ideas of value adds that could make the proposition work.
 
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#11
Yes, The disputes would need to be between the buyer and seller. Like with any other delivery service (FedEx, UPS, Courier, Uber) the buyer or seller wouldn't be able to hold the driver responsible for items. I can see I will need a contract. I was hoping to do it without, but, as you point out, it may be be necessary in the society we live in today.
I do know that with many courier services the buyer/seller can indeed hold the driver/delivery service accountable for damages. I would check on that. FedEx, UPS, USPS all insure this out separately.

Secondly, if you are selling a $50 item what would you expect to pay Uber, FedEx or a local courier to deliver it for you? Could you increase the price of the item to say $75 and say delivery is included within some amount of miles or pickup for $50? Please remember this is a service for those that don't want to go pick up a fish or coral from a seller or deliver it to a buyer.
When I sell items I do not expect to pay anything for shipping. Shipping costs are almost always paid by the buyer. It might be hard to educate sellers to include that fee, at a high enough level that it would make it worth your while. It could work, but that will be an obstacle.

What would you pay FedEx, Uber a local Courier to pick up and deliver, same day, corals or fish for you or would you not consider these services? None of these services has the climate controlled storage/transport facilities or life support knowledge that would make easy same day transport, so there is additional risk there. What are you thoughts? Would your rather use a service dedicated to life support of these animals or Uber?

I'm thinking of a service that would show up with bags for fish, containers for coral, etc, ready to go.
Is life support knowledge for a 2 hour transit really an issue for most people? If I wanted to send a coral via uber I could bag it and send it in a $3 thermos.

Personally, I have only been in the hobby for 21 years now but I have never shown up to buy a fish or coral from a person and them not had a bag for the fish, or a bag/tubberware/bucket for a coral.

I don't want to be a downer at all, but these are going to be the points you have to overcome. Personally it just doesn't seem that lucrative.

I think there might be more money in stuff like this if you had a service that tore down and re setup established systems that are for sale. If you were able to move a 100g tank across town for someone that seems to be more of a need and something you could charge a premium for. Otherwise if you are just moving a fish/coral from Torrance to Palm Springs, I don't think you will be able to compete on price with companies like Uber, FedEx etc.


JMO. Hope that helps.
 

erickjohnsonaz

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#12
I do know that with many courier services the buyer/seller can indeed hold the driver/delivery service accountable for damages. I would check on that. FedEx, UPS, USPS all insure this out separately.



When I sell items I do not expect to pay anything for shipping. Shipping costs are almost always paid by the buyer. It might be hard to educate sellers to include that fee, at a high enough level that it would make it worth your while. It could work, but that will be an obstacle.



Is life support knowledge for a 2 hour transit really an issue for most people? If I wanted to send a coral via uber I could bag it and send it in a $3 thermos.

Personally, I have only been in the hobby for 21 years now but I have never shown up to buy a fish or coral from a person and them not had a bag for the fish, or a bag/tubberware/bucket for a coral.

I don't want to be a downer at all, but these are going to be the points you have to overcome. Personally it just doesn't seem that lucrative.

I think there might be more money in stuff like this if you had a service that tore down and re setup established systems that are for sale. If you were able to move a 100g tank across town for someone that seems to be more of a need and something you could charge a premium for. Otherwise if you are just moving a fish/coral from Torrance to Palm Springs, I don't think you will be able to compete on price with companies like Uber, FedEx etc.


JMO. Hope that helps.
Again, thank you for the comments. I believe I have read them carefully. I appreciate the time you have taken to reply.

Assuming that I don't have the capacity to break down tanks and transport them at this time, which I didn't say was out of the question, but would require a team of people, most likely and become a very expensive concept for either party reaching over the $1000 mark per tank (2-3 people for a days work to tear down a tank and move it, then set it back up again) I think very few tanks that are sold are going to meet that demand. And if they are there are some great service companies that would do that and are already set up to do this type of thing.

You are suggesting that I would make more money if I just became a Uber driver. Are people really hiring Uber to pick up and deliver coral and fish for them? Remember that the premise here is that I have seen a myriad of threads here on this form with the question "Will you deliver?" (I have been asked that in all but one transaction I have had so far in my QT operation, so far and almost every sale thread with the quote "pickup ONLY". So if people are not willing to deliver a fish or coral and if people are not willing to pick up a fish our coral and (this is supposed to be a funny joke, please laugh) we don't have a matter/antimatter site to site transporter, yet, how are people buying and selling fish and coral?

I don't want to drive people around as a Uber driver. I don't want to talk to them about their day. It takes effort for me to be an extrovert. I like fish and coral. I just want to drive fish and coral around. I don't want to give the Uber company a cut and have to charge more for the service. And yes, I agree, the value add for a few hours of fish and coral transport of someone that knows what they are doing is minimal, buy if you had a choice and all other factors were equal who would you choose? A random Uber driver or someone that had any experience with reefing?

As for the seller paying for shipping, I do have another "business" that makes and sells mugs on-line. MOST of the sites I sell my mugs I include FREE shipping. That does not mean that UPS and USPS provides free postage to me, it just means that on those sites I charge more for my mugs and I pay the shipping costs from the sale price. It is amazing. Etsy, E-bay, etc all recommend that sellers mark up the price of an item and include free shipping. And it works! most of the time if a person comes directly to my website and buys a mug and does calculated shipping they get a better deal, but I see time and time again the same people buying the same mug for more money on Etsy, from me, that they priced, with shipping, on my website within minutes. In fact they follow links from my website to Etsy and spend more money for the same mug, from me. Just to get FREE shipping. FREE shipping is not really FREE. It's a gimmick to get you to think that you are getting a good deal. The buyer pays no matter what.

So, the lingering questions remains:

If this type of service existed would you pay for it, either as the seller or the buyer? (It sounds like your answer is: NO.)
If you would pay for it how much would you pay? (It sounds like your answer is: No more than I would pay an Uber + $3 for a bag and rubber band)

But could you put a flat rate on the service?

Please don't worry about whether you think I will make money or if you think there is a different way to make more money. Making money is not the reason I am interested in doing this service. This is my hobby. I am exploring new ways to make it fun for me. My reward system is much different then most peoples. It is NOT money based. This thread to to judge interest, determine value and find the pitfalls, not to determine the financial viability of the service.
 

All Delight

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#14
This is the way I look at what it should cost. Minimum wage per hour $13 hr plus federal mileage reimbursement .56 cents per mile.

TBH I’d pay that, assuming I wanted the item bad enough.
 
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#16
This seems like a good idea but there are alot of things mentioned plus more that i dont think you've gone over.

biggest one is, if reefers want something bad enough they will pick it up and look it over before paying no mater how far the drive.

another huge one is that there are A LOT of flakes, even when you set up everything , there's that last minute when you get "ghosted", or worse you make the drive and seller/buyer isnt home.

great thought but honestly more headache than its worth, I've tried this before and realized its not worth it. time or money wise
 

erickjohnsonaz

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#17
This seems like a good idea but there are alot of things mentioned plus more that i dont think you've gone over.

biggest one is, if reefers want something bad enough they will pick it up and look it over before paying no mater how far the drive.

another huge one is that there are A LOT of flakes, even when you set up everything , there's that last minute when you get "ghosted", or worse you make the drive and seller/buyer isnt home.

great thought but honestly more headache than its worth, I've tried this before and realized its not worth it. time or money wise
Thank you for the thoughts. In order to combat that do you think that getting people to pay for the delivery service before the transport begins is the solution to people flaking out on the deal? or a 50/50 deal?
 
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#18
reefers want to see, touch and inspect goods before they buy. ive driven dry goods to meet people and they don't show up at you 'meet up" spot, or run late, putting your next spot later than they expected making them mad or buyers try to get things cheaper so you're out more cash / time.

then if you drop stuff off at buyers home, you'd have to take a pic like Amazon to CYA.

its a noble try but truly not worth the headaches / especially you'd be taking on for a few busk once you factor your time, gas, wear and tear.
 
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#19
Erick- thank you for seeing my posts as trying to be helpful, that is the spirit they are intended.

To answer your question directly, if I wanted to buy something from say Santa Monica, I might pay $30-40 to have it delivered to me in Long Beach at most. Even then it's kind of a stretch, but if I were busy and it was something I NEEDED and a local store did not have it, I can see paying that. Especially if it was same day/night.

I have never specifically used UBER to deliver a fish or coral, but I have used it in emergencies at work when someone was out in the field and needed something RIGHT NOW. It's not that common of an occurrence but as a business unless you can price yourself cheaper, or provide a significant better quality that will be the bar you have to match
 

erickjohnsonaz

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#20
reefers want to see, touch and inspect goods before they buy. ive driven dry goods to meet people and they don't show up at you 'meet up" spot, or run late, putting your next spot later than they expected making them mad or buyers try to get things cheaper so you're out more cash / time.

then if you drop stuff off at buyers home, you'd have to take a pic like Amazon to CYA.

its a noble try but truly not worth the headaches / especially you'd be taking on for a few busk once you factor your time, gas, wear and tear.
Thank you for the input! I appreciate your thoughts.
 

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