QT - Prazipro or copper treatment first?

[Smite]

Just curious what those who QT choose to do first? I've started off with prazi this time around but am a little nervous, the Kole tang and geometric hawk fish I picked up seem to be extra shy. Whether its avoiding all light or just hiding I'm not sure yet. Makes me wonder if its better to treat with copper first from here on out? Whats the bigger worry, ich/velvet or flukes?

I know a lot of people choose to just feed an immune boosting diet but that's completely failed me several times in the past. So i'm treat whether I see signs of sickness or not.

 

[Kaison]

I thought you can run them together?


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[Zoarder]

Just curious what those who QT choose to do first? I've started off with prazi this time around but am a little nervous, the Kole tang and geometric hawk fish I picked up seem to be extra shy. Whether its avoiding all light or just hiding I'm not sure yet. Makes me wonder if its better to treat with copper first from here on out? Whats the bigger worry, ich/velvet or flukes?

I know a lot of people choose to just feed an immune boosting diet but that's completely failed me several times in the past. So i'm treat whether I see signs of sickness or not.

This is what i do. Start with a very low dosage of copper. Observe for 2 weeks. By then you can tell if they are twitching or scratching. That's usually flukes when they twitch or have cloudy eye. If so i use prazi then. After 5 weeks you should be able to tell if they have anything on them. At week six i start using my display tank water so they get adjust. Usually a week after i add them to the display. Worked for me so far.

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[borg]

Velvet is the biggest worry along with Uronema, at least for me. Ive had velvet get me before in a QT tank that wiped it in about 2-3 weeks. My mistake was mixing almost 6-7 fish in there. Also had Anthis that came with Uronema. Luckily they were in QT by themselves.

Anyway, my procedure is get the fish eating first. If they dont and you start treating right away, it could mean deaths also. Prazipro and copper can both suppress diet.

As soon as theyre eating, I give them a formalin bath followed by TTM with Prazipro baths during it. Formalin helps with velvet and uronema from what I understand. It doesnt necessarily cure it but it gives them relief. TTM is for Ich. Prazirpro for flukes. I then observe for velvet, or uronema. I havent run into those diseases since starting this regimen, but if the fish did show symptoms, i have medicine to treat them. For velvet, i would use CP or copper. For Uronema, i would treat for with Metroplex.

 

[Smite]

I thought you can run them together?


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One of the LFS stores near me said Prazipro and Copper Power ( I think it was) could be used at the same time. One of the main reasons that was their copper of choice if I remember right. I haven't had the balls to try it. Most QT procedures I've come across start with one or the other.

 

[Smite]

This is what i do. Start with a very low dosage of copper. Observe for 2 weeks. By then you can tell if they are twitching or scratching. That's usually flukes when they twitch or have cloudy eye. If so i use prazi then. After 5 weeks you should be able to tell if they have anything on them. At week six i start using my display tank water so they get adjust. Usually a week after i add them to the display. Worked for me so far.

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That sounds pretty solid to me. Do you worry about ich? I'm so fed up I plan on treating all fish with copper for 4 weeks, but in reality I probably wont set up a coral QT so I'm a little torn.

Velvet is the biggest worry along with Uronema, at least for me. Ive had velvet get me before in a QT tank that wiped it in about 2-3 weeks. My mistake was mixing almost 6-7 fish in there. Also had Anthis that came with Uronema. Luckily they were in QT by themselves.

Anyway, my procedure is get the fish eating first. If they dont and you start treating right away, it could mean deaths also. Prazipro and copper can both suppress diet.

As soon as theyre eating, I give them a formalin bath followed by TTM with Prazipro baths during it. Formalin helps with velvet and uronema from what I understand. It doesnt necessarily cure it but it gives them relief. TTM is for Ich. Prazirpro for flukes. I then observe for velvet, or uronema. I havent run into those diseases since starting this regimen, but if the fish did show symptoms, i have medicine to treat them. For velvet, i would use CP or copper. For Uronema, i would treat for with Metroplex.

So do you only treat when you see symptoms? I've seen no symptoms, just tired of adding a fish to my system and everyone blowing up with ich.

Sounds like for ich/velvet you guys go to copper. Any experience with hyposalinity? I've been tempted to give that a go with these two after the prazi. My QTs do have ATO systems, so I think its doable.

 

[Jetsetter57]

I've had better luck soaking pellets with seachem prime then treating all these diseases. Seems like boosting the fishes immune system is way more effective than just treating all the things they "could" have. Why be on prescriptions for a month than just pound multivitamins and boost immune to fight off anything that comes their way?

 

[Zoarder]

That sounds pretty solid to me. Do you worry about ich? I'm so fed up I plan on treating all fish with copper for 4 weeks, but in reality I probably wont set up a coral QT so I'm a little torn.



So do you only treat when you see symptoms? I've seen no symptoms, just tired of adding a fish to my system and everyone blowing up with ich.

Sounds like for ich/velvet you guys go to copper. Any experience with hyposalinity? I've been tempted to give that a go with these two after the prazi. My QTs do have ATO systems, so I think its doable.

Nah that why i start with copper usually ick is the first thing they get. I have an Achilles, Powder blue tang, 5 blue tags (all ick magnets) in my QT and all are spotless. Ick will show up quick specially if stressed. Since there is no LR there is no where to hide so copper takes care of it. Thats why i wait 6 weeks after i start copper. Just dont mix medications.

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[LAreefguy]

But even after all of these amazing treatments, you can add a fish to a dt and it can break out in ich. Ich if im not mistake Is something that fish all technically have but can come out If stressed. Someone correct me if I'm wrong!! My point is qt is very important but not having fluctuating temps and being harassed are also very important assets to a disease free fish.


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[borg]

So do you only treat when you see symptoms? I've seen no symptoms, just tired of adding a fish to my system and everyone blowing up with ich.

Sounds like for ich/velvet you guys go to copper. Any experience with hyposalinity? I've been tempted to give that a go with these two after the prazi. My QTs do have ATO systems, so I think its doable.

Well, when the only disease i really knew about was Ich, I didnt even try to treat even after seeing symptoms. I thought i could manage it.

Now that Ive experienced velvet, I'm more careful. However, i still don't throw them in copper. I perform formalin baths, TTM, and prazipro and observe a few weeks like zoarder. Luckily i haven't seen any velvet after going though it so if i do, they will be going through copper or CP pending on the fish (i won't use CP on wrasses and angels).

As for hypo salinity, i don't think you can use that for velvet, but you can for Ich.

 

[Kaison]

One of the LFS stores near me said Prazipro and Copper Power ( I think it was) could be used at the same time. One of the main reasons that was their copper of choice if I remember right. I haven't had the balls to try it. Most QT procedures I've come across start with one or the other.

Don't take my word for it, I'm a noob but I watched vivid aquariums YouTube video on setting up a qt and he said it's ok to run cupramine and prazipro at the same time .


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[pandimus]

Very good write up..

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[Paranoiattack91]

After my huge wipeout, I don't take any chances. Even if the fish show no signs they still get the full treatment. 2 rounds of prazi followed by 4 weeks of copper. My last purple tang I introduced to the qt showed immediate signs of ich so I instead started with the copper first. I ran that for 30 days and then dosed the prazi.

 

[Smite]

After my huge wipeout, I don't take any chances. Even if the fish show no signs they still get the full treatment. 2 rounds of prazi followed by 4 weeks of copper. My last purple tang I introduced to the qt showed immediate signs of ich so I instead started with the copper first. I ran that for 30 days and then dosed the prazi.

I'm currently in the same mindset. I've been lucky enough to get velvet in my system 2x now. Nearly wiped out the whole tank both times, so I'm on high alert.

What do you do for new frags? Are you qt'ing those as well?

 

[Smite]

Well, when the only disease i really knew about was Ich, I didnt even try to treat even after seeing symptoms. I thought i could manage it.

Now that Ive experienced velvet, I'm more careful. However, i still don't throw them in copper. I perform formalin baths, TTM, and prazipro and observe a few weeks like zoarder. Luckily i haven't seen any velvet after going though it so if i do, they will be going through copper or CP pending on the fish (i won't use CP on wrasses and angels).

As for hypo salinity, i don't think you can use that for velvet, but you can for Ich.

How long are the baths? I pulled all of my fish from my DT to QT, so TTM wasn't really an option for me this time around. With 7 fish it would have been too much work and water. My golden rhomboids made it through the copper treatment with CopperPower just fine (well the male jumped a few days before it was over, but there was no signs of stress for the whole 4 weeks).

If hypo doesn't kill velvet I'll pass on it then. That's good to know.

 

[Smite]

But even after all of these amazing treatments, you can add a fish to a dt and it can break out in ich. Ich if im not mistake Is something that fish all technically have but can come out If stressed. Someone correct me if I'm wrong!! My point is qt is very important but not having fluctuating temps and being harassed are also very important assets to a disease free fish.


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I'm no so sure on this. I think its just extremely easy to contract with the 70+ day life cycle. I know they all have it when they come in but I believe copper, hypo salinity and TTM can actually completely cure the fish of ich.


Edit:

Along with having your tank go fallow for 76 days prior to adding the fish back. It can also hitch hike in on frags ect, which is a little overwhelming.

 

[LAreefguy]

To be honest i have never fully understood ich but can say that I have never had ich ever in my 2 year old reef. I qt every fish for 6 weeks except leopard wrasse. I recently woke up to my achilles covered in it. I had temp fluctuations and think that was the cause. There is absolutely no way i had any ich until this happened. Nothing new introduced to my tank. I also feel I have heard that ich is not something that exists in the ocean its a illness in aquarium kept fish. Annnnyway thats all just speculation on my part but would love some more clarity for all!!!!

I'm no so sure on this. I think its just extremely easy to contract with the 70+ day life cycle. I know they all have it when they come in but I believe copper, hypo salinity and TTM can actually completely cure the fish of ich.


Edit:

Along with having your tank go fallow for 76 days prior to adding the fish back. It can also hitch hike in on frags ect, which is a little overwhelming.

 

[borg]

How long are the baths? I pulled all of my fish from my DT to QT, so TTM wasn't really an option for me this time around. With 7 fish it would have been too much work and water. My golden rhomboids made it through the copper treatment with CopperPower just fine (well the male jumped a few days before it was over, but there was no signs of stress for the whole 4 weeks).

If hypo doesn't kill velvet I'll pass on it then. That's good to know.

As soon as theyre eating, I take another bucket and add airstone to it. After a few min, I add Formalin MS, then add the fish. The bath lasts for 30 min max (ive read some people do longer, upto 45-50 min).

i have to agree that TTM is a PITA. However, my success rate using that is higher than using copper. (by success rate, i mean fish surviving).

Perhaps, thats why im hesitant on using copper unless i see symptoms. Maybe I added copper too fast, not sure.

Youre right though, using copper could probably take care of both velvet and ich. Although ive read that certain velvet strains can be resistant to copper so you would still need to observe them after copper treatment just to ensure.

 

[borg]

To be honest i have never fully understood ich but can say that I have never had ich ever in my 2 year old reef. I qt every fish for 6 weeks except leopard wrasse. I recently woke up to my achilles covered in it. I had temp fluctuations and think that was the cause. There is absolutely no way i had any ich until this happened. Nothing new introduced to my tank. I also feel I have heard that ich is not something that exists in the ocean its a illness in aquarium kept fish. Annnnyway thats all just speculation on my part but would love some more clarity for all!!!!

I know alot of folks with this theory as well. You could be right.

However, you also mentioned that you didnt QT the leopard wrasse so it couldve come from him. Ich couldve been present all along then the temp changes caused it to re-appear.

 

[LAreefguy]

True but the leopards have been with me for months. everything is goes through copper. maybe the leopards carry it but i doubt that they do as they also have no symptoms or signs at any point.

I know alot of folks with this theory as well. You could be right.

However, you also mentioned that you didnt QT the leopard wrasse so it couldve come from him. Ich couldve been present all along then the temp changes caused it to re-appear.