Tank Restart Thoughts IM SR 80 AIO

[scaramanga]

Going to throw out my thoughts on what I am thinking of doing with the reboot of my tank.

Ok so quick backstory. I recently had to breakdown my tank due to moving. Sold all fish and inverts. Transferred most of the corals to my 15g office tank.

Thinking I want to go bare bottom this time. I love the idea of cranking the flow up and am going to be making this a mostly Acro/SPS tank. Plus the cleaning of a bare bottom is so nice. I love the look of a nice sand tank, but my sand never looks amazing. Also, want to try something new.

My plan is to use my old live rock, which is now dead. I dried out this rocks in the sun and with a floor fan over a week. Is there anything I need to worry about using this rock again? I did not run it through any citric acid. Just straight from the tank to the sun. I am going to break a bunch of the pieces and use epoxy, glue, sand/rock dust to create a rock sculpture(I kinda just piled it before). Hoping to look something close to @anthonys_aqua . That scape looks so good. Plus I have a ton of laser cut flat pieces for the base.

My thought was to throw a few of the media bags with ceramic in my 15g, which is just rocking right now, so I can transfer the bags to the new Home tank once it is ready to go. Will doing this create issues in my 15g when adding or removing? Is there anything else that I should be worried about with this idea?

Once setup I wanted to go with Corals from day one/two. Corals would be pretty cheap/forgiving corals like birdsnest, Zoas, maybe some shrooms. I would add the media bags also day one. I would do small doses of Ammonium Bicarb. Then add fish further down the line. Add PNS from Day 1. Pods maybe a week or 2 later depending on cycle point. Same with inverts. Then fish further down the line.

As far as equipment goes see my list below. My thoughts were not to bring anything but the must have(Flow, heaters, ato) and maybe the Algae Scrubber/lighting.

What am I missing? Thoughts on this process?

Also, No longer in the garage! YAY

Available Equipment
Tank: Innovative Marine SR80 AIO
Flow: 2x Mighty Jets 538 return pumps , 2x Jebao MCP 120 on alternating flow.
Lighting: 2x Noopsyche k7 pro 3, 1x Noopsyche k7 pro 4(New)
Heaters: Inkbird + 2x 100w Jager heaters
ATO: Tunze 3155 ATO
Doser: Jebao DP 3 Doser
Skimmer: IOAOI 80g
Algae Scrubber: Algae Clean Scrubber Hang on Sump ACS-7-Elite-G8 W/ Algae Tear Drop Flex Screen.

 

[mescobar]

Nice, if you're throwing your dried rock in the tank without bleaching it first, then you'll probably get some high phosphates from all the dried organics (dead bacteria, algae, sponges).

The media from the 15g tank is a good starter culture but will your new home tank will still need to completely cycle. If you put fresh media in the office nano, the existing nitrifying bacteria will naturally recolonize it, no worries there.

You probably won't need an algae scrubber for quite some time.

Excited to follow your new tank build thread

 

[Jimbo327]

Re-using the dead rocks without bleaching it...will input a lot of dead organics into the new setup. So just be prepared for that. Probably get some LC or GFO ready to absorb the phosphates. It would be good to start the cycle though with organics.

When you said Day 1, do you mean day 1 after the tank cycled. Or literally Day 1 after you get it wet. I would probably not do corals for Day 1 until the tank has gone through a proper cycle, and may want to keep the lights off for awhile so you don't have major algae bloom before the cycle is done. If you starting with live rock, I would say go for it, but you are going with dead rock...the Day 1 idea is a bit harder to succeed. LOL. You are more than willing to try and I will follow along on this thread. Don't worry, any way you do it, it'll all work out once the tank matures.

 

[Gwhat]

I actually restarted a system using dried rock before. One thing I learned is not to assume it’s “clean” just because it’s been dried. Mine released phosphate for a while, so I’d recommend soaking it and testing PO4 before the reboot.


I’d also seed the ceramic media in the 15g exactly like you’re planning. That should help shorten the ugly phase. Personally, I’d get a few fish in before adding expensive SPS, but starting with Birdsnest and Zoas sounds like a safe approach.


Keep us updated. I always enjoy following clean bare-bottom SPS builds.

 

[scaramanga]

Re-using the dead rocks without bleaching it...will input a lot of dead organics into the new setup. So just be prepared for that. Probably get some LC or GFO ready to absorb the phosphates. It would be good to start the cycle though with organics.

When you said Day 1, do you mean day 1 after the tank cycled. Or literally Day 1 after you get it wet. I would probably not do corals for Day 1 until the tank has gone through a proper cycle, and may want to keep the lights off for awhile so you don't have major algae bloom before the cycle is done. If you starting with live rock, I would say go for it, but you are going with dead rock...the Day 1 idea is a bit harder to succeed. LOL. You are more than willing to try and I will follow along on this thread. Don't worry, any way you do it, it'll all work out once the tank matures.

What’s crazy is I ended up with Dino’s at the end of my tank life due to zeroed out phosphates. It took a month of dosing phosphate at high levels to get detectable phosphates. By the time I got it up to .05ppm I had to tear the tank down. This happened after I moved it from upstairs to the garage. I think due to having to replace the sand. I’ve also always had issues with keeping phosphates in the system. Even after almost a year and a half after I had first started the tank.

With the restart, no sand, and not washing the rocks clean I’m hoping to have a decent amount of organics but not crazy high. Hence why I was also thinking running just my algae scrubber. I do also have LC on hand but I think that requires the skimmer.

 

[scaramanga]

I actually restarted a system using dried rock before. One thing I learned is not to assume it’s “clean” just because it’s been dried. Mine released phosphate for a while, so I’d recommend soaking it and testing PO4 before the reboot.


I’d also seed the ceramic media in the 15g exactly like you’re planning. That should help shorten the ugly phase. Personally, I’d get a few fish in before adding expensive SPS, but starting with Birdsnest and Zoas sounds like a safe approach.


Keep us updated. I always enjoy following clean bare-bottom SPS builds.

This is a great idea on testing for sure. Also, I’ll definitely start a new thread for people to follow along. I was hoping the 15g might give a head start

 

[drexel]

Without “cleaning” the rock you’re gonna get algae galore growing on that rock as soon as you turn on the lights. The bound organics and phosphate will fuel that algae growth. Soak in bleach, then do a 30 minute acid bath which will remove the outer portion of the rock and the leftover organics/growth. Let it completely dry out, then throw in some RO with a little water movement and test PO4 after a day or so. Dry rock with no CCA growth on it and bound phosphate will grow nothing but GHA. Ask anyone who’s ever started a tank with dry rock that wasn’t “clean”.

 

[scaramanga]

Without “cleaning” the rock you’re gonna get algae galore growing on that rock as soon as you turn on the lights. The bound organics and phosphate will fuel that algae growth. Soak in bleach, then do a 30 minute acid bath which will remove the outer portion of the rock and the leftover organics/growth. Let it completely dry out, then throw in some RO with a little water movement and test PO4 after a day or so. Dry rock with no CCA growth on it and bound phosphate will grow nothing but GHA. Ask anyone who’s ever started a tank with dry rock that wasn’t “clean”.

Sounds good. Think I'll do this. GHA was not fun dealing with at the start of this tank. Plus I'll have at least another month before getting this tank wet

 

[DanK.Reefer]

Lots of negativity here on using dried live rocks. I have started 4 tanks on dried(not bleached) rocks and been fine. Was there an initial Po4 Spike? Yeah but GFO cured that.

Was there algae growth? Yeah once out of 4 times. I also have 1 tank right now that was started on bleached rock it has been running for 2 years and despite all efforts it grows algae uncontrollably. I will be shutting it down soon.

Did I end up with pods in a tank that was started on dry rock? Yup. Nothing but dry rock(over a year dry) and new dry dead sand. After 3 months I had pods climbing on the glass and all I put in the tank was dried rocks, dry sand, Dr Tims and ammonia. It made me think of Jurassic Park....Life finds a way.

There are benefits to both ways of reef keeping/tank cycling. I personally hate all of the issues I have faced with barren dead base rock more, than I do the minor annoyances I have dealt with on dried or live rock.

 

[Jimbo327]

Lots of negativity here on using dried live rocks. I have started 4 tanks on dried(not bleached) rocks and been fine. Was there an initial Po4 Spike? Yeah but GFO cured that.

Was there algae growth? Yeah once out of 4 times. I also have 1 tank right now that was started on bleached rock it has been running for 2 years and despite all efforts it grows algae uncontrollably. I will be shutting it down soon.

Did I end up with pods in a tank that was started on dry rock? Yup. Nothing but dry rock(over a year dry) and new dry dead sand. After 3 months I had pods climbing on the glass and all I put in the tank was dried rocks, dry sand, Dr Tims and ammonia. It made me think of Jurassic Park....Life finds a way.

There are benefits to both ways of reef keeping/tank cycling. I personally hate all of the issues I have faced with barren dead base rock more, than I do the minor annoyances I have dealt with on dried or live rock.

This reminds me of...

"Do you want to do this the easy way or the hard way?"

I think most of us are trying to guide him towards the easy way. LOL. With dead rock, he'll probably have to go through the uglies one way or another. If he decides to put corals in Day 1, then he'll probably have to keep the lights at a decent intensity to keep it alive. That will fuel algae especially with bound organics in the rocks and limit his options to dial down the lights, black out period, etc. And it's easier to take out the phosphates from the rocks outside of the tank vs. when it is running with corals.

Most of us learned it the hard way haha. And everything turned out okay, just how hard do you want to work to get there.

 

[drexel]

This reminds me of...

"Do you want to do this the easy way or the hard way?"

I think most of us are trying to guide him towards the easy way. LOL. With dead rock, he'll probably have to go through the uglies one way or another. If he decides to put corals in Day 1, then he'll probably have to keep the lights at a decent intensity to keep it alive. That will fuel algae especially with bound organics in the rocks and limit his options to dial down the lights, black out period, etc. And it's easier to take out the phosphates from the rocks outside of the tank vs. when it is running with corals.

Most of us learned it the hard way haha. And everything turned out okay, just how hard do you want to work to get there.

Exactly! Patience is the key here. Dry rock tanks work just fine, but you either have to let them roll for a long time before they’re stable or pack them full of corals from the start. If you’re inexperienced, then the latter is a tough place to be. There’s no hate on dry rock, there’s definitely a place for it in this hobby, just not a good way for new hobbyists to start (not saying the OP is a noob), just look at all of those threads started about dinos, algae issues and struggling corals, there’s one underlying component. Cheers!

 

[DanK.Reefer]

This reminds me of...

"Do you want to do this the easy way or the hard way?"

I think most of us are trying to guide him towards the easy way. LOL. With dead rock, he'll probably have to go through the uglies one way or another. If he decides to put corals in Day 1, then he'll probably have to keep the lights at a decent intensity to keep it alive. That will fuel algae especially with bound organics in the rocks and limit his options to dial down the lights, black out period, etc. And it's easier to take out the phosphates from the rocks outside of the tank vs. when it is running with corals.

Most of us learned it the hard way haha. And everything turned out okay, just how hard do you want to work to get there.

Like I was saying there are 2 ways to do it. I don't find it difficult at all to start a tank run GFO leave the lights off for a few months and have no issues. The hardest thing about that is patience. If you are in a hurry then by all means try and force something barren and devoid of life to grow instantly.

I have also learned the "HARDWAY"....LOL. I will never ever ever start a tank with barren dead quarried rock ever again. I am too impatient for that. I would rather go 3 mo. lights out and use that time to build the biome. That way I can run a less problematic system in 3 mo. time than fight for a year or more to try and turn barren rock and sand into the same thing.

 

[Jimbo327]

I started with 100% dry rock. It was damn hard. LOL.

 

[scaramanga]

I had been running a planted freshwater for about 10 years. Having moved from a 10g setup to a 36g. Started about 3yrs ago on the reef side. I have definitely been through the ups and downs. My first tank was the 75g that I used dry marco rock and the carribsea live sand. Boy oh boy did I have the least fun dealing with GHA after the first month of being wet to about the 7month mark(6months). Didn't matter what clean up crew was in there. It barely had any corals and so I fueled the algae with the nutrients . Phosphates were high for quite awhile. I did not soak the rock at all. I gave them a quick wash and then splat into the tank. I was new and excited.

At the same time, I knew I was going to build my 15g office tank. So I took all the left over rock I had threw it in 10g tank and just added salt water and a pump to move water around. 6 months later I removed that rock. Glued it all together and threw it into my office tank fully expecting it to do that same as the 75g. In reality, it was completely the opposite. Coralline was growing within the first month. No GHA, I did end up with dinos in it for a short time due to nitrate bottoming out. This was like a year into the tank being setup. That is when I started dosing ammonium and phosphate. Before that and even after everything has completely taken off. It runs no skimmer, UV, Algae scrubber. Just some filter floss and a little bit of carbon when I remember to change it. I do water changes maybe once every 3 months. Pods in all the chambers.

Meanwhile, 80g was running smooth after I moved everything over to it from the 75g. When I moved it to the garage I made the mistake of replacing the sand. Regardless of, if it was the right thing or not, it bottomed my phosphates and dinos took over. Took about 2 months to get recovered from that dinos issues only to have to break the tank down to move. Hence my restart thread.

(This may be controversial, but I was intrigued)
I had been reading recently that you could start a tank with corals only since they process ammonia better than nitrate and that you could add coral at the start of a tank. My thought was to use a couple of my media bags from my 15g to help jump start the cycle.

I definitely would like to try and avoid GHA again, but I feel like that is a crap shoot. I will say what ultimately helped me crush GHA was turning on my algae scrubber and off my skimmer. I was harvesting algae off the screen about every 2 weeks(large chunks). Once that came online the GHA pretty much stopped growing in the tank. Coralline was finally developing on the rocks. Might be luck, might not be. That was why I thought maybe turning that on from the start might help.

Sorry, a lot to unpack. Was trying to see if anyone else maybe took a somewhat similar route or had a similar experience to what I was thinking of trying. Goal would be to avoid headaches for sure.

Also, bare-bottom is new to me. I know it can have some challenges that come along with it.

 

[DanK.Reefer]

I had been running a planted freshwater for about 10 years. Having moved from a 10g setup to a 36g. Started about 3yrs ago on the reef side. I have definitely been through the ups and downs. My first tank was the 75g that I used dry marco rock and the carribsea live sand. Boy oh boy did I have the least fun dealing with GHA after the first month of being wet to about the 7month mark(6months). Didn't matter what clean up crew was in there. It barely had any corals and so I fueled the algae with the nutrients . Phosphates were high for quite awhile. I did not soak the rock at all. I gave them a quick wash and then splat into the tank. I was new and excited.

At the same time, I knew I was going to build my 15g office tank. So I took all the left over rock I had threw it in 10g tank and just added salt water and a pump to move water around. 6 months later I removed that rock. Glued it all together and threw it into my office tank fully expecting it to do that same as the 75g. In reality, it was completely the opposite. Coralline was growing within the first month. No GHA, I did end up with dinos in it for a short time due to nitrate bottoming out. This was like a year into the tank being setup. That is when I started dosing ammonium and phosphate. Before that and even after everything has completely taken off. It runs no skimmer, UV, Algae scrubber. Just some filter floss and a little bit of carbon when I remember to change it. I do water changes maybe once every 3 months. Pods in all the chambers.

Meanwhile, 80g was running smooth after I moved everything over to it from the 75g. When I moved it to the garage I made the mistake of replacing the sand. Regardless of, if it was the right thing or not, it bottomed my phosphates and dinos took over. Took about 2 months to get recovered from that dinos issues only to have to break the tank down to move. Hence my restart thread.

(This may be controversial, but I was intrigued)
I had been reading recently that you could start a tank with corals only since they process ammonia better than nitrate and that you could add coral at the start of a tank. My thought was to use a couple of my media bags from my 15g to help jump start the cycle.

I definitely would like to try and avoid GHA again, but I feel like that is a crap shoot. I will say what ultimately helped me crush GHA was turning on my algae scrubber and off my skimmer. I was harvesting algae off the screen about every 2 weeks(large chunks). Once that came online the GHA pretty much stopped growing in the tank. Coralline was finally developing on the rocks. Might be luck, might not be. That was why I thought maybe turning that on from the start might help.

Sorry, a lot to unpack. Was trying to see if anyone else maybe took a somewhat similar route or had a similar experience to what I was thinking of trying. Goal would be to avoid headaches for sure.

Also, bare-bottom is new to me. I know it can have some challenges that come along with it.

I currently run an ATS on one of my tanks. That tank was cycled with about 40lbs of old dry rock(this tank spawned pods from dry rock). Then after about 2 months I added another 60lbs or so of rock from a mature system. I ran the turf scrubber from the day I added the mature rock. I then let it run for about another month more before cramming it full of corals. This tank doesn't grow algae and I have to dose both ammonium bicarbonate and phosphate otherwise it will bottom out.

As far as running a tank on a skip cycle with mature media or rock I have seen it go both ways. Some guys have success with it but I have also seen it go terribly wrong after about a month and hair algae growth over the the top of and kill all the corals.

 

[scaramanga]

Sounds like the consensus is to go with everything and not drop in any corals. Keeping lights off. Monitor Nitrates and phosphates till stable.

 

[Smite]

If you muriatic acid bathe your rocks get yourself a brute trashcan and a pick a time or day that's not windy. Have a large box of baking soda on hand incase you want to neutralize the reaction early for any reason. Have spot, preferably near the gutter, but one that is cement preferably. Gutter in the street is probably the best spot and a power move, you'll either assert dominance over your neighbors or get the cops called on you in your dish gloves and goggles.

Add rocks, Add tap water until rocks are cover. Then with gloves, slowly add the acid into the water. Do this in small amounts and waiting a few minutes between adding. Add it until you get a decent bubbling reaction, it increases over time and turns to nasty brown foam. You just don't want too much of it to handle. That's how I've always done it in the past. This last go I went off a ratio I found online. Added it and it was way too much and a complete headache, 2' of brown foam above the edge of the brute and the wind picked up.

For scaping, save yourself the fiberglass posts/epoxy or even reef cement and get yourself some fine/medium grain dry sand (even from your old breakdown if you have it) and a bottle of GlueMaster super thinset glue. Easiest way to scape and very strong. I have some but I'm not sure I'm done with it yet, I can let you know.

There are some videos on youtube that break it down, but it sets instantly (well a couple seconds) so it makes scaping overhangs and all the fun things you'd want to do much easier. Set the pieces up how you want, sprinkle some sand in the joint, tilt your thinset dont squeeze, hear cracking of sand and rock from the temp change. Repeat over the joint a few times to build it up. It'll be damn near strong as the rock when done. It's messy and burns if you get it on your skin so plan accordingly.

If you look at my old build thread that was all held together that way, left side was around 60 lbs wet when I recently pulled it out and it held together after years in the water. Right side, 90lbs did break in half when I was pulling it out but that sucker was heave and awkward I should have asked for some help.

I started with planted tanks, went high tech for a little bit, then low tech discus tanks for a while, then went to reef tanks. Personally reef tanks are easier since there are so much test kits available (atleast since i was doing fw around 06-'10) Looking forward to the build thread.

If you go barebottom and plan to clean the bottom pane of glass regularly. I highly recommend flipping your tank over and painting the bottom white (outside bottom). This gives a better more natural look, mimics sand but the best part is it reflects light back up which really helps keep colonies of acropora looking good from the front, reduces shaded die off and really helps brighten up the whole display. If you want to see an example of that, look up my UNS 75 build from a few years ago.

 

[scaramanga]

@Smite I thought about the muriatic way, but it would definately be a power move on my part in the neighborhood seeing that I am just moving in literally Tuesday of next week. Also, I'm on a hill and gutter dumping would definately affect multiple neighbors so I think that's a no go.

I've done the epoxy/glue/sand method in my office tank so I think I got that one down pat. Just need to make sure I create islands this time and keep things like zoas off my main rock structure lol. Painting the bottom white though is something new. Any issues associated with this down the road or is it just like painting the back glass black? Similar paint used as that also?

 

[Jimbo327]

I didn’t do the acid bath on my rocks, just a bleach with tap water soak in a brute for a week. I think there was a BRS video that showed that was enough. Plus bleach is not as harsh and will burn off in sunlight. Make sure you get the simple bleach, not anything with aroma or additives.

I also have a thicker white plastic food grade 55gal drum container that you can have if you want to do the bleach.

 

[Smite]

@Smite I thought about the muriatic way, but it would definately be a power move on my part in the neighborhood seeing that I am just moving in literally Tuesday of next week. Also, I'm on a hill and gutter dumping would definately affect multiple neighbors so I think that's a no go.

I've done the epoxy/glue/sand method in my office tank so I think I got that one down pat. Just need to make sure I create islands this time and keep things like zoas off my main rock structure lol. Painting the bottom white though is something new. Any issues associated with this down the road or is it just like painting the back glass black? Similar paint used as that also?

I'm sure you'll be good.

Just like painting the back side of the glass. No issues down the line, since it's on the outside bottom of the glass theres no real wear and tear or anything. I used the cheapest flat white paint I could get from HD. Tapped paper on the side panels. Flipped it upside down put a couple light coats on every 10-15 minutes until it was even. Let it dry for a bit then put it back on the stand. Looked great in my opinion, and you can really see the difference in over illumination in the tank. Black bottoms make the tank look dark, white really lightens the look up, reflects light up and when top down viewing really makes the sticks pop out.
I wasnt the best at cleaning it, had a bunch of coraline on it here. But when I did scrape it, there was a noticeable difference under the colonies. If you zoom in, you can see some polyps pointing down, that may happen regardless but I really felt the white bottom had a positive impact on health on the shaded side of these colonies. Could have been flow, but IMO it was light coming back up as well.

This is from when I sold it so it holds up very well, since it's on the outside bottom.