What is the best brand for Phosphate test kit?
- Thread starter happyreefer
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One is phosphate which measures in ppm and the other is phosphorus which measures in ppb (you’ll need to convert in order to get ppm). I use/have the ULR Phosphorus one (736), but apex fusion will do the math for you. If you don’t have an apex, here’s the chart with the conversions.
https://pages.hannainst.com/hubfs/0...phate-conversion-table--hanna-instruments.pdf
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https://pages.hannainst.com/hubfs/0...phate-conversion-table--hanna-instruments.pdf
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I think I'm looking for the PPM tester if I'm not mistaken. The conversion chart is something I can't seem to understand at the moment and I'm not sure if I will ever be able to do so. I'll just stick to the PPM version, thanks for posting it up though. It sounds like you're saying the H1774 is the one that measures in PPM, if you can take a moment to clarify that would be great. I do have an Apex Fusion pro controller but don't have the Trident auto tester. I think that's the only way to monitor P04 with the Apex.
When you say that you use both vials, does that mean the test kit contains 2 vial containers for the water and regent, and so you double test? I've haven't had a chance to use the ULR test kit yet so I'm not sure what you mean by that.
When you say that you use both vials, does that mean the test kit contains 2 vial containers for the water and regent, and so you double test? I've haven't had a chance to use the ULR test kit yet so I'm not sure what you mean by that.
I am the only one that is not a fan of Hanna products? To me these devices do not last as long as they should. I have also seen many inconsistent test especially with the all checker.i know there are a lot of things one can do to make sure it is accurate but why should one even have to worry about that in the first place. Salferit test have never steered me on the wine direction
H1774 measures in ppm and H1736 measures in ppb. The latter has higher resolution but in most cases probably doesnt matter. As Drexel noted if youre using H1736 Apex fusion will do the conversion for you. "Fusion" just refers to the app. Just need to select the appropriate model when you input the results.
With regards to the vials...they do come with two. Im lazy so i just use one. Youre supposed to fill both vials with tank water. One test cycle takes two readings. C1 tests the reference water sample. C2 tests the vial with the reagent and compares the two. I "simplify" the process by using the same vial. Once it reads the reference sample i pull it out, add reagent then test again. One less vial to clean.
One thing i hate about hanna checkers is the battery door.
With regards to the vials...they do come with two. Im lazy so i just use one. Youre supposed to fill both vials with tank water. One test cycle takes two readings. C1 tests the reference water sample. C2 tests the vial with the reagent and compares the two. I "simplify" the process by using the same vial. Once it reads the reference sample i pull it out, add reagent then test again. One less vial to clean.
One thing i hate about hanna checkers is the battery door.
I agree, the ppm version is fine for what we're testing. I use both vials, one that is the "control" baseline and the other will have the reagent. I do it this way to avoid missing the 3 minute window where the tester will power off. You need to mix the reagent for two minutes, I turn it upside down and not shake like the Nitrate tester. This makes sure the reagent fully dissolves and you're not racing against the clock. C1 gets the control, then C2 gets the reagent sample. After the first reading/result, I repeat the testing a couple more times (I power cycle the tester off and repeat C1/C2) to see if there's a big difference in the results. It's usually close enough, but sometimes it can be way off and if you only use one vial, then the reading could be an error and you can't double check the results, which is why I do it this way.
I usually test PO4 and NO3 at the same time, so when the NO3 is counting down, I just use the timer to mix/dissolve the PO4 reagent. Or you can use your phone's timer or Alexa, Google, etc
Hopefully this makes sense?
I like Salifert for Ca and Mag, but I don't mind Hanna for Alk and the others. I really wish that someone would just create an auto tester for alk, N and P, as mag and calcium really don't drift that much and can be tested once a week or two.
But in regards to testing, I think that you have to pick what works for you, so you may have to try a couple in order to figure that out.
I usually test PO4 and NO3 at the same time, so when the NO3 is counting down, I just use the timer to mix/dissolve the PO4 reagent. Or you can use your phone's timer or Alexa, Google, etc
Hopefully this makes sense?
I like Salifert for Ca and Mag, but I don't mind Hanna for Alk and the others. I really wish that someone would just create an auto tester for alk, N and P, as mag and calcium really don't drift that much and can be tested once a week or two.
But in regards to testing, I think that you have to pick what works for you, so you may have to try a couple in order to figure that out.
I'm starting to remember the steps to take for Hana testers. If I recall correctly, the Alk and or Calcium testers also require a baseline test with just the salt water and then I would have to do another run which is the actual test with regent. This plus the regent powder problem I was experiencing was likely the reason why I switched to Salifert. I do get what you mean now by saying it's better to use both vials as the 2nd test can do done with a few simple clicks, otherwise, it would take much more effort to do another run of testing. I'm not sure if you ever used the digital Milwaukee salinity tester, that too also gives different results as you click away. I triple click or sometimes even click 4 times just to see what comes up next lol. The reason why is because that device can only read to a certain decimal point which is 1.025 and no more. I really wish it can go one more decimal down so that I know whether the results are slightly above 1.025 or below, EG, 1.0255 or 1.0245. That's a big disadvantage of using the Milwaukee and thus, the reason why I triple test. On average, I click 3 times to see if any of the 3 are off which in almost in all cases they are. It usually shows something like 1st click at 1.025, the 2nd click at 1.025, then the last click would be at 1.026. Then I take the Red Sea's refractometer to check one last time to verify that the salinity is on the low side of 1.025, which is also not easy to do. And because I really don't know what the exact salinity is EG 1.0254 or 1.0255 and so on, I just write down 25/25/26 on my MS Excell. That's where I'm at today lol.
After reading your last comment, I am seriously considering switching to Hana for both my nitrite and Phosphate testing. I'm currently using the API for nitrite and Salifert for Phosphate which both are color titration test kits. Although they work just fine, as mentioned in the beginning on this thread, I'm constantly guessing my results which can be frustrating at times. My test results for nitrite is always something along the lines of 20 to 40, or 60 to 80 and so on. And the same for Phosphate, they're kind of all over the place. This is why I think I should seriously consider the digital test kits. Another thing I didn't like about the Hana kits are the shape of the vials. It has a bottle neck shape which make if difficult to dry with a paper towel after use. And plus the regent powder problem and having to test for the baseline and the actual test, I found that it takes such a long time to test. But I guess that's the price to pay for a more accurate result.
Thanks for the info on the calcium and magnesium not drifting far quickly, I didn't know that. In my experience, they all (Alk, cal, mag) were changing quite a bit, at the same time, I do know that I should be testing a lot more than I normally do.
After reading your last comment, I am seriously considering switching to Hana for both my nitrite and Phosphate testing. I'm currently using the API for nitrite and Salifert for Phosphate which both are color titration test kits. Although they work just fine, as mentioned in the beginning on this thread, I'm constantly guessing my results which can be frustrating at times. My test results for nitrite is always something along the lines of 20 to 40, or 60 to 80 and so on. And the same for Phosphate, they're kind of all over the place. This is why I think I should seriously consider the digital test kits. Another thing I didn't like about the Hana kits are the shape of the vials. It has a bottle neck shape which make if difficult to dry with a paper towel after use. And plus the regent powder problem and having to test for the baseline and the actual test, I found that it takes such a long time to test. But I guess that's the price to pay for a more accurate result.
Thanks for the info on the calcium and magnesium not drifting far quickly, I didn't know that. In my experience, they all (Alk, cal, mag) were changing quite a bit, at the same time, I do know that I should be testing a lot more than I normally do.
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What can I do to make them more accurate? But, yes, I agree. It should be more plug and play if anything. And also, what do you mean by not lasting long, as in, I need to replace the device every so often or the replacement of regent powder packs? I noticed that they only give you so many powder packs, even for the ones where they sell just the refill powder packs, it doesn’t seem like there's a lot in there. I think this is what you mean by not lasting long.
Oh, I see. I didn't know that about the Apex, that's really cool. I was wondering how in the world would Apex Fusion know what the Hana test kits are doing, how in the world are they communicating lol.
I now know what you guys are saying about the use of the 2 vials. I with you.
Yeah, I do remember that the battery Door kept opening lol. I think this what you're trying to say by saying that you don't like the battery Door.
I now know what you guys are saying about the use of the 2 vials. I with you.
Yeah, I do remember that the battery Door kept opening lol. I think this what you're trying to say by saying that you don't like the battery Door.
For N and P, I use Hanna.
For cal, mag, alk, I use salifert.
I was using Hanna for alk before, but I’ve recently switched to salifert. Hanna works fine, it’s just way more cost effective to use Salifert kit as it’s cheaper and can test 50-100 times per kit. Hanna is only 25 times. Hanna is easier to use because it is less steps, but Salifert is also not difficult.
I use the phosphorous Hanna. I multiply the result by 3 and divide by 1000 to get phosphates conversion.
For cal, mag, alk, I use salifert.
I was using Hanna for alk before, but I’ve recently switched to salifert. Hanna works fine, it’s just way more cost effective to use Salifert kit as it’s cheaper and can test 50-100 times per kit. Hanna is only 25 times. Hanna is easier to use because it is less steps, but Salifert is also not difficult.
I use the phosphorous Hanna. I multiply the result by 3 and divide by 1000 to get phosphates conversion.
I think if you're dosing 3 part, then once a week test for Ca and Mag makes sense, but once a system is stable the only two variables would be the alk/Ca relationship consumption, but they shouldn't fluctuate that much once they're dialed in. If there seems to be a lot of movement between them, then I would look at how you're dosing them and what version you're dosing. When I was running my 22g sps tank, I was dosing two forms of alk (soda ash and bicarbonate), soda ash at night to get the pH rise and the bicarb during the day to normalize the pH rise during the photo period. I tested once a week, alk and Ca, then I would test Mag once a month.
And to clarify how I use the vials for the Hanna Nitrate and Phosphorus testers a little, I use both vials from the Nitrate test, one has tank water (control/baseline) and then I use the other Nitrate vial for the actual test/reagent, then I use one vial from the Phosphorus for the test/reagent. The one from the Nitrate (control) is used for both tests. I use a 10mL graduated cylinder to collect the water and pour that into the vials (after rinsing with tank water), this ensures that I collect the same amount every time no matter what. The next time I test, maybe I can take some pics of how I do everything?
As far as digital refractometers go, I don't personally like them. Every single one that I've tried was always off at some point. I'm not sure if the Red Sea refractometer is designed for brine or seawater. A lot of them sold in the hobby are designed/rebranded from the ones used for brine (not for use in our hobby), but the DD Ocean and the VeeGee are both designed for seawater. If I ever suspect that my refractometer need calibrating, I double check with the TM glass hydrometer and that sets everything straight.
And to clarify how I use the vials for the Hanna Nitrate and Phosphorus testers a little, I use both vials from the Nitrate test, one has tank water (control/baseline) and then I use the other Nitrate vial for the actual test/reagent, then I use one vial from the Phosphorus for the test/reagent. The one from the Nitrate (control) is used for both tests. I use a 10mL graduated cylinder to collect the water and pour that into the vials (after rinsing with tank water), this ensures that I collect the same amount every time no matter what. The next time I test, maybe I can take some pics of how I do everything?
As far as digital refractometers go, I don't personally like them. Every single one that I've tried was always off at some point. I'm not sure if the Red Sea refractometer is designed for brine or seawater. A lot of them sold in the hobby are designed/rebranded from the ones used for brine (not for use in our hobby), but the DD Ocean and the VeeGee are both designed for seawater. If I ever suspect that my refractometer need calibrating, I double check with the TM glass hydrometer and that sets everything straight.
Is there some sort of advantage of using the PPB version over the PPM? I thought to myself, maybe just get PPM (Phosphate) version, this way I don't have to calculate the Phosphate conversion. If there is some sort of advantage, I can't imagine what that would be. The only thing I can think of is that the PPB version came out first then the PPM version was later developed to help people avoid doing the manual calculations.
I agree, the Salifert is so much more cost effective than Hanna. It's also really easy to use and really accurate
Okay, I'm just now learning about soda ash and bicarbonate. I thought you were referring to kalkwrasser. After looking at the BRS web page, I see what you're saying now. They're basically alkalinity but different source of them. The only thing I've ever used for Alk is ESV B-Ionic 2 part and kalkwrasser so the other two you just mentioned are foreign to me. Interesting. I didn't know there was anything besides 2 part or kalkwrasser as a way to dose Alk.
Yeah, I guess there is no sense of using 4 vials for N and P Hana testing but that's good to know lol. When you say that you're rinsing with tank water, do you mean the vials or the graduated cylinder? If you're referring to the vials, don't they have to be squeaky clean to make sure it's the right amount? Yes, please do post a few pictures whenever you have some free time on your hands showing what you mean by that, I would certainly appreciate it. I get what you're saying about using the graduated cylinder but still don't understand what you're rinsing the tank water with.
I should really get one of those D-D true seawater refractometer. And also the TM high precision Hydrometer. I do remember someone telling me not to use the Red Sea's refractometer and that it's not really designed for seawater. Thanks for the reminder! Good call.
I agree, the Salifert is so much more cost effective than Hanna. It's also really easy to use and really accurate
Okay, I'm just now learning about soda ash and bicarbonate. I thought you were referring to kalkwrasser. After looking at the BRS web page, I see what you're saying now. They're basically alkalinity but different source of them. The only thing I've ever used for Alk is ESV B-Ionic 2 part and kalkwrasser so the other two you just mentioned are foreign to me. Interesting. I didn't know there was anything besides 2 part or kalkwrasser as a way to dose Alk.
Yeah, I guess there is no sense of using 4 vials for N and P Hana testing but that's good to know lol. When you say that you're rinsing with tank water, do you mean the vials or the graduated cylinder? If you're referring to the vials, don't they have to be squeaky clean to make sure it's the right amount? Yes, please do post a few pictures whenever you have some free time on your hands showing what you mean by that, I would certainly appreciate it. I get what you're saying about using the graduated cylinder but still don't understand what you're rinsing the tank water with.
I should really get one of those D-D true seawater refractometer. And also the TM high precision Hydrometer. I do remember someone telling me not to use the Red Sea's refractometer and that it's not really designed for seawater. Thanks for the reminder! Good call.
Is there some sort of advantage of using the PPB version over the PPM? I thought to myself, maybe just get PPM (Phosphate) version, this way I don't have to calculate the Phosphate conversion. If there is some sort of advantage, I can't imagine what that would be. The only thing I can think of is that the PPB version came out first then the PPM version was later developed to help people avoid doing the manual calculations.
I agree, the Salifert is so much more cost effective than Hanna. It's also really easy to use and really accurate
Okay, I'm just now learning about soda ash and bicarbonate. I thought you were referring to kalkwrasser. After looking at the BRS web page, I see what you're saying now. They're basically alkalinity but different source of them. The only thing I've ever used for Alk is ESV B-Ionic 2 part and kalkwrasser so the other two you just mentioned are foreign to me. Interesting. I didn't know there was anything besides 2 part or kalkwrasser as a way to dose Alk.
Yeah, I guess there is no sense of using 4 vials for N and P Hana testing but that's good to know lol. When you say that you're rinsing with tank water, do you mean the vials or the graduated cylinder? If you're referring to the vials, don't they have to be squeaky clean to make sure it's the right amount? Yes, please do post a few pictures whenever you have some free time on your hands showing what you mean by that, I would certainly appreciate it. I get what you're saying about using the graduated cylinder but still don't understand what you're rinsing the tank water with.
I should really get one of those D-D true seawater refractometer. And also the TM high precision Hydrometer. I do remember someone telling me not to use the Red Sea's refractometer and that it's not really designed for seawater. Thanks for the reminder! Good call.
I agree, the Salifert is so much more cost effective than Hanna. It's also really easy to use and really accurate
Okay, I'm just now learning about soda ash and bicarbonate. I thought you were referring to kalkwrasser. After looking at the BRS web page, I see what you're saying now. They're basically alkalinity but different source of them. The only thing I've ever used for Alk is ESV B-Ionic 2 part and kalkwrasser so the other two you just mentioned are foreign to me. Interesting. I didn't know there was anything besides 2 part or kalkwrasser as a way to dose Alk.
Yeah, I guess there is no sense of using 4 vials for N and P Hana testing but that's good to know lol. When you say that you're rinsing with tank water, do you mean the vials or the graduated cylinder? If you're referring to the vials, don't they have to be squeaky clean to make sure it's the right amount? Yes, please do post a few pictures whenever you have some free time on your hands showing what you mean by that, I would certainly appreciate it. I get what you're saying about using the graduated cylinder but still don't understand what you're rinsing the tank water with.
I should really get one of those D-D true seawater refractometer. And also the TM high precision Hydrometer. I do remember someone telling me not to use the Red Sea's refractometer and that it's not really designed for seawater. Thanks for the reminder! Good call.
The rinsing of the vials is to ensure that there's no residue left over from the last test/cleaning them. The 10mL graduated cylinder works better, as it has clear markings, whereas the Hanna vials just have a line. Pluse, 10mL of water goes above their line.
I'm not sure if you're a book guy or not, but if there's one book (or three) that I would read, it's The Reef Aquarium by Delbeek and Sprung Vol. I & III (vol. II is about softies, anemones, etc), but those books have everything you need to run a successful tank, all of the info is still applicable today. In fact, I still reference those books now. Your understanding of how reef tanks work will change after reading those books, mainly because all of the information is vetted, backed by actual science and years of experience.
I'll test again tomorrow or Friday and I'll try to post pics of the process. I just tested yesterday, but I was multitasking, so I didn't have time to stop take all of the necessary pics.
Awww, that makes a lot sense. Thanks for clearing the air! I always thought safe Phosphate levels were somewhere between .02 and .04, I read that somewhere a long time ago, however, I recently saw someone on Facebook stating that .02 to .04 is dangerous low so staying somewhere around .1 would be ideal. He is totally right as I've made the change and saw in big improvement almost right away. I was having problems with my tank because the Phosphate were really low. I need to thanks that person, some random dude on FB, he saved my ass big time lol.
Gotcha, going with the PPM version does make lot of sense. I also understand what you mean by rinsing with the tank water instead of using just tap or RODI water, it does a better job at removing any leftover residue. The tank saltwater is technically much stronger water than non salt water, I understand. I just googled the 10ml graduated cylinder and now see what you mean. You must be really good at reefing lol. That's so awesome! I definitely should read Julian Sprungs book volume 1 and 3 but I should also really take the time to read volume 2 also as I'm a big soft corals and anemone dude thank you for the recommendation! I've been meaning to get his book at Reefapalooza to have him autograph it, I've been putting that off for years, however, I now found the courage to move forward, haha! I actually met him 2 years ago at RAP Anaheim expo and boy was he really nice to me. He told me that I have some nice stuff and gave me one of the most friendly smile I've received, which was a great honor, I was thrilled to hear that from him. Such a great guy he is. I really should get his books.
Yes, please do take the time to show me (and us) the step by step picture tutorials of your testing methods. I am interested! Thank you so much for your time!! I really appreciate it!!
Gotcha, going with the PPM version does make lot of sense. I also understand what you mean by rinsing with the tank water instead of using just tap or RODI water, it does a better job at removing any leftover residue. The tank saltwater is technically much stronger water than non salt water, I understand. I just googled the 10ml graduated cylinder and now see what you mean. You must be really good at reefing lol. That's so awesome! I definitely should read Julian Sprungs book volume 1 and 3 but I should also really take the time to read volume 2 also as I'm a big soft corals and anemone dude
thank you for the recommendation! I've been meaning to get his book at Reefapalooza to have him autograph it, I've been putting that off for years, however, I now found the courage to move forward, haha! I actually met him 2 years ago at RAP Anaheim expo and boy was he really nice to me. He told me that I have some nice stuff and gave me one of the most friendly smile I've received, which was a great honor, I was thrilled to hear that from him. Such a great guy he is. I really should get his books.Yes, please do take the time to show me (and us) the step by step picture tutorials of your testing methods. I am interested! Thank you so much for your time!! I really appreciate it!!
Okay, here’s my process for testing N, P and alk.
Here are the tools used, two vials from the N test, one each from the ULR PO4 and alk, one 10mL graduated cylinder and 5mL glass pipette.
I add tank water to the 10mL cylinder and proceed to rinse out each vial. Then I extract 10mL of tank water and add to each vial. When I rinse each vial I usually dump the water back in the tank and give it a quick shake to get as much residual water out of the vial.
Phone angle is off, but the line should be even with the bottom portion of the water and not the meniscus.
I tap or flick the reagent a few times to get the powder to settle, then cut it open. I then form a diamond opening, which creates a nice funnel for the powder/reagent to follow down into the vial.
I gently tap the bottom while pouring, then when it seems all of the reagent is in, I then turn the packet so the opening is facing upwards, then tap the bottom of the packet with the scissors to loosen any reagent I missed, there’s usually a little extra that comes free.
I use the control (just tank water) and start the testing process. When I get to C2, I long press and the 7:00 minute timer starts and I move to the ULR PO4. I use the NO3 timer for mixing the PO4 reagent (2 minutes total). (I follow the same steps with the reagent and make sure all the reagent makes it in the vial before mixing).
The control gets used for the PO4 test when the reagent is fully mixed. I do the complete test cycle for the PO4 test (C1-C2) three times in a row (power cycling off each time). Then I usually get an average between them.
I usually still have time left on the NO3 test and move to alk, which is super quick.
Then I rinse each vial with RO and dry with clean paper towel, ready for the next round of testing. Hopefully this helps and makes sense?
The control only gets used for C1 for the N and P testing only. The alk uses the same vial for C1 and C2.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Here are the tools used, two vials from the N test, one each from the ULR PO4 and alk, one 10mL graduated cylinder and 5mL glass pipette.
I add tank water to the 10mL cylinder and proceed to rinse out each vial. Then I extract 10mL of tank water and add to each vial. When I rinse each vial I usually dump the water back in the tank and give it a quick shake to get as much residual water out of the vial.
Phone angle is off, but the line should be even with the bottom portion of the water and not the meniscus.
I tap or flick the reagent a few times to get the powder to settle, then cut it open. I then form a diamond opening, which creates a nice funnel for the powder/reagent to follow down into the vial.
I gently tap the bottom while pouring, then when it seems all of the reagent is in, I then turn the packet so the opening is facing upwards, then tap the bottom of the packet with the scissors to loosen any reagent I missed, there’s usually a little extra that comes free.
I use the control (just tank water) and start the testing process. When I get to C2, I long press and the 7:00 minute timer starts and I move to the ULR PO4. I use the NO3 timer for mixing the PO4 reagent (2 minutes total). (I follow the same steps with the reagent and make sure all the reagent makes it in the vial before mixing).
The control gets used for the PO4 test when the reagent is fully mixed. I do the complete test cycle for the PO4 test (C1-C2) three times in a row (power cycling off each time). Then I usually get an average between them.
I usually still have time left on the NO3 test and move to alk, which is super quick.
Then I rinse each vial with RO and dry with clean paper towel, ready for the next round of testing. Hopefully this helps and makes sense?
The control only gets used for C1 for the N and P testing only. The alk uses the same vial for C1 and C2.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
