Old tank syndrome I need help!

[five.five-six]

Old tank syndrome AKA lazy reefer syndrome. Been supper busy… yea whatever but I have been phoning it in. I have been having moderate nutrient issues and been carbon dosing and since Po3 was higher than No3, using lanthanum chloride to even it out. 3 weeks ago I had a minor RTN event. 2 corals lost 40% and 10% tissue respectively. Water change, testing, carbon, pollyfilter, clean skimmer, basic maintenance. Wait and see. Everything is stabilized now my nutrients were high and my ALK was 6.1.


ff today alk is 10.5… OK. But the other issue is that I replaced my No3 test (expired 2023 and the reagiant had turned yellow). I thought I had probably been testing hing. WRONG. It was testing low. I had thought my nitrates were around 12PPM. No, the now test at over 25PPM (tested twice this morning to be sure) Nyos test

with Phosphate at 0.05 (Hanna) and nitrate at 30-35PPM, how do I attack the nitrate?

 

[bakbay]

No such thing as old tank syndrome man. My 150gal cube has been running for 5+ years without a water change. I just do carbon dosing (10mL diy NoPox).

Nitrate is a not that bad at 30ppm - you can just do a big WC, say a 50% will drop it down to 15ppm. If you have a monster tank, that would be a pita so carbon dosing is your friend. It might take 5-6 weeks to make a meaningful impact though. People used algae scrubbers and refugiums but honestly — it’s too messy for me.

 

[drexel]

Quick changes of nutrients and alk can cause issues, so likely that's what happened. I honestly would just buy a set of Polyp Lab Genesis blocks with a holder and put them in your sump. It will take some time, but they will help lower NO3. Carbon dosing can help, but it feeds all bacteria, good and bad, so there are some risks involved. I would let your PO4 rise a little, to at least 0.1ppm, which I think is a good place (give or take a little). There's a relationship between N & P, so if they are out of balance, then that usually causes issues (algae, TN, etc) it's not the actual numbers, but the ratio between them. There's a great video High Tide Aquatics put out this year with Charles Delbeek in which he talked about this relationship/ratio.
I think it's great information that most should watch and understand.
Whatever you do, go slow and let things change slowly until you reach a good balance again.

 

[five.five-six]

No such thing as old tank syndrome man. My 150gal cube has been running for 5+ years without a water change. I just do carbon dosing (10mL diy NoPox).

Nitrate is a not that bad at 30ppm - you can just do a big WC, say a 50% will drop it down to 15ppm. If you have a monster tank, that would be a pita so carbon dosing is your friend. It might take 5-6 weeks to make a meaningful impact though. People used algae scrubbers and refugiums but honestly — it’s too messy for me.

Tank is ~ 250 gallons. That’s a lot of water to change.

the problem is with the redfield ratio. Should be 16:1 and I’m at 700:1. Carbon dosing consumes both nitrate and phosphate, so I will be completely stripped of phosphate before I make a dent in phosphate. I’m considering adding phosphate and becoming more aggressive on carbon dosing.

My ideal nutrient perimeters are .03 phosphate and 5ppm nitrate.

 

[five.five-six]

Quick changes of nutrients and alk can cause issues, so likely that's what happened. I honestly would just buy a set of Polyp Lab Genesis blocks with a holder and put them in your sump. It will take some time, but they will help lower NO3. Carbon dosing can help, but it feeds all bacteria, good and bad, so there are some risks involved. I would let your PO4 rise a little, to at least 0.1ppm, which I think is a good place (give or take a little). There's a relationship between N & P, so if they are out of balance, then that usually causes issues (algae, TN, etc) it's not the actual numbers, but the ratio between them. There's a great video High Tide Aquatics put out this year with Charles Delbeek in which he talked about this relationship/ratio.
I think it's great information that most should watch and understand.
Whatever you do, go slow and let things change slowly until you reach a good balance again.

are those binding agents? I thought that sort of approach ran the risk of precipitating bicarbonate or magnesium.

 

[bakbay]

Tank is ~ 250 gallons. That’s a lot of water to change.

My tank is 450gal so yeah - understand the challenge. Nitrate is at 23ppm with 30 large angels & tangs so I went with carbon dosing. Prior to this, I used a sulfur denitrator (too dangerous) to drop from 130ppm+ down to sub 50ppm.

Agreed on doing it slowly — for me, carbon dosing is slow enough and totally controllable.

 

[Jimbo327]

Yeah, WC is probably the most direct way to lower nitrate. Other than that, probably need to change out the filter/socks more often. Or add in a roller mat if you are going on lazy reefer cruise control, you never have to change out socks/floss Adding more surface area (rocks/sand/blocks) will also house more bacteria which will help overall denitrification.

Carbon dosing will work. It takes out more nitrates than phosphates. But it does need time to ramp up since bacteria need to grow.

if it was me, I would do WC like 20%. Slowly increase my carbon dosing and add some more rocks to the sump. Add some more reef roids or phosphates just so I dont bottom out. I would target 10 ppm nitrates and 0.1 phosphates. And from there, it would be much easier to maintain with just carbon dosing/refugium/ATS.

 

[bakbay]

Socks & filter floss will work, removing nasties before they break down; but you will have to be diligent and clean/replace every 2-3 days. I’ve been lazy and just started a roller mat (Deltec VF8000) last week.

I believe that my nitrate dropped by 3ppm thanks to this alone.

 

[drexel]

are those binding agents? I thought that sort of approach ran the risk of precipitating bicarbonate or magnesium.

They are ceramic based block that populates beneficial bacteria, which adds to the biological filter of a system. It's basically compact live rock when it's been seeded. I think each block can filter 300g of water, but I forget the exact amount. You're adding more biological filtration which processes nutrients, nitrate being one of them. The will process phosphate to some degree, but it's a very small amount. It's the same concept as adding siporax to your system, by adding this media, you give bacteria a place to grow and consume nitrate. They are also good to keep in your sump just in case you need to start a system in an emergency, they will seed a tank quickly, so there are many benefits to keeping these in your sump.

https://www.polyplab.com/products/genesis-rock

 

[five.five-six]

My tank is 450gal so yeah - understand the challenge. Nitrate is at 23ppm with 30 large angels & tangs so I went with carbon dosing. Prior to this, I used a sulfur denitrator (too dangerous) to drop from 130ppm+ down to sub 50ppm.

Agreed on doing it slowly — for me, carbon dosing is slow enough and totally controllable.

The problem with carbon dosing is that my phosphates are already fairly low.

 

[five.five-six]

They are ceramic based block that populates beneficial bacteria, which adds to the biological filter of a system. It's basically compact live rock when it's been seeded. I think each block can filter 300g of water, but I forget the exact amount. You're adding more biological filtration which processes nutrients, nitrate being one of them. The will process phosphate to some degree, but it's a very small amount. It's the same concept as adding siporax to your system, by adding this media, you give bacteria a place to grow and consume nitrate. They are also good to keep in your sump just in case you need to start a system in an emergency, they will seed a tank quickly, so there are many benefits to keeping these in your sump.

https://www.polyplab.com/products/genesis-rock

I’ve been running quite a few of the ceramic spherical version of those for probably five years

 

[joseserrano]

You can add bacteria and compensate for any drop in phosphate with pellets, they are high in phosphate and will at least feed the fish

 

[Jimbo327]

The problem with carbon dosing is that my phosphates are already fairly low.

Just add more reef roids or spirulina powder. Both are high in phosphates.

Carbon dosing removes 16:1 nitrates to phosphates ratio, so over time, it will take out nitrates faster than phosphates.

Tropic Marin basically has a line, I think one of them is Bacto Balance, which is nothing more than carbon and either nitrate or phosphates being added back to the tank. I can make the same TM bottle by putting carbon (ethanol or glycol) with a pinch of sodium nitrate or phosphate into same bottle...boom marketing magic.

 

[five.five-six]

I’ve been running NoPoX for 3 weeks now, but only 10 ML/day. I think I should step that up.

BRS 1.1 ml dose pump.
OSC 000:00/002:30/357:30 Then ON

 

[bakbay]

I’ve been running NoPoX for 3 weeks now, but only 10 ML/day. I think I should step that up.

BRS 1.1 ml dose pump.
OSC 000:00/002:30/357:30 Then ON

I don’t know your tank size but with I believe it’s 3mL per 25gal? You should be able to slowly increase the dosage and test regularly.

 

[five.five-six]

I don’t know your tank size but with I believe it’s 3mL per 25gal? You should be able to slowly increase the dosage and test regularly.

250 gallons, so upwards of 30ML/day?

 

[five.five-six]

I don’t know your tank size but with I believe it’s 3mL per 25gal? You should be able to slowly increase the dosage and test regularly.

OK, I just doubled my NoPox to 20ML/day. I’ll decide, based on test results, if I should up it to 30ML/day next weekend. Also going to change filter floss 2-3X/week.

 

[bakbay]

OK, I just doubled my NoPox to 20ML/day. I’ll decide, based on test results, if I should up it to 30ML/day next weekend. Also going to change filter floss 2-3X/week.

If you see cloudiness and film on the water surface, throttle back. Another indication is algae growth.

 

[Jimbo327]

It needs time to let the bacteria to grow after increasing carbon dosing. It'll take a couple weeks to ramp up. So give it at least 2 weeks to see how it is going before ramping up again.

 

[bakbay]

Btw: NoPox is expensive so I just mix it myself from Costco, e.g. 1,000mL:
500mL: vinegar
250mL: vodka
250mL: RODI

This is close enough and easy ballpark. If you want to be precise (or closer to the target), 500mL vinegar, 375mL vodka, and 125mL RODI.

Cheers!