Are RO/DI System Add-Ons Worth it?

TheGuyWho

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#1
I just started running my new, but used RO/DI system. Im trying to figure out what to do about all the waste water, but what about all the add-ons?
Permeate Pump?
Booster Pump?
Etc

Are they worth it? The write up on the Spectrapure website says that the Permeate pump will reduce the amount of "waste" water
 

DETANE

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#2
They help out a lot..

The waste water can be use to water your garden or lawn since it has gone through the sediment and carbin filters prior to the Ro/ flushing.. I use it to water the garden or swimming pool water top off
 

TheGuyWho

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#3
No swimming pool here.

Im thinking about running the waste water line thru my backyard as a form of irrigation. I just never realized how much freakin water was actually going to "waste."
 

zigginit

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#4
i dont think you should use them unless you have low water pressure to start with. the Permeate Pump is for packing water into storage tanks like the 4 gallon ones under the sink ro kits. with our RO systems we use a lot of water with each uses ie 30 gallon water change, so we dont have to worry about the refilling our fill vessel when all we used is a cup of water. it has to do with the auto shut off being to close to max (or shut off pressure) the closer the auto shut off is to the shut off pressure the less efficient the RO membrane works because the pressure gradient is to narrow. its kind of confusing i know. read this http://www.purewaterproducts.com/permeatepump.htm

the best way for use to reduce water waste is to run a second RO membrane in line with the first one. just make sure you move your pressure reducer (forget the real name) to after the second RO membrane instead of in between them. this way you filter your brine water 1 more time. and change the waste from 4 to 1 to just under 2 to 1.
 

TheGuyWho

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#5
i dont think you should use them unless you have low water pressure to start with. the Permeate Pump is for packing water into storage tanks like the 4 gallon ones under the sink ro kits. with our RO systems we use a lot of water with each uses ie 30 gallon water change, so we dont have to worry about the refilling our fill vessel when all we used is a cup of water. it has to do with the auto shut off being to close to max (or shut off pressure) the closer the auto shut off is to the shut off pressure the less efficient the RO membrane works because the pressure gradient is to narrow. its kind of confusing i know. read this http://www.purewaterproducts.com/permeatepump.htm

the best way for use to reduce water waste is to run a second RO membrane in line with the first one. just make sure you move your pressure reducer (forget the real name) to after the second RO membrane instead of in between them. this way you filter your brine water 1 more time. and change the waste from 4 to 1 to just under 2 to 1.
So you mean like a "piggy back" membrane kit? Like this:
http://www.marinedepot.com/SpectraP..._Systems-SpectraPure-YSP5151-FIRORAAD-vi.html
 

DETANE

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#6
Yup. Like that. And if you really want to step your reef game up can get a Kati Ani water system. No wastewater, rechargable, and makes water 99.9999% pure as opposed to RO/DI water which at best is 95-98% pure with lots of filters to replace $$$$$
 

TheGuyWho

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#7
Yup. Like that. And if you really want to step your reef game up can get a Kati Ani water system. No wastewater, rechargable, and makes water 99.9999% pure as opposed to RO/DI water which at best is 95-98% pure with lots of filters to replace $$$$$
Haha, yeah I think ill pass. I can barely afford to go to MAX Hahaha
 
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#8
Might want to think twice if you plan to cut down on waste water by adding a second membrane. Here's why.

First - remember that what folks call "waste water" really would be better thought of as "flush water" in that this water serves the important purpose of internally flushing the surface of the semi-permeable membrane to keep the membrane from fouling/scaling.

When you configure a system with two membranes in series (the waste from the first membrane going to the "in" port on the second membrane), for this discussion let's say it's two 75 gpd membranes, the system behaves like you have a single long (75 gpd x 2) 150 gpd membrane.

Now - if you use a proper flow restrictor, that is, one for a 150 gpd membrane, you'll have about a 4:1 waste to product ratio. Sounds familiar, right?

If however you don't change the flow restrictor - meaning you keep using the same restrictor you were using when you just had one 75 gpd membrane, then you'll see a waste to product ratio much lower than 4:1. But remember that the recommendation for a ~4:1 ratio comes from the membrane manufacturer. They are telling you that you need about a 4:1 ratio to keep the membrane flushed and keep the membrane from fouling or building up scale. Run the system with a lower ratio and you will foul/scale the membrane(s) quicker than would have otherwise been the case.

Instead of adding a second membrane to lower that ratio, you could have just changed out your flow restrictor ($4) instead. A much less expensive approach to get you to the same endpoint in terms of saving on waste water.

Now, to confuse things just a bit. Filmtec specs call for the 4 to 1 ratio on the basis of assumptions about the water that will be supplied to the membrane. If you have very soft water you MAY be able to get a decent service life from the membrane running at a ratio lower than 4 to 1 (e.g., 3 to 1). Remember that the waste water from the first membrane is about 25% harder than your tap water.

Bottom line: If what you are after is reduced waste water, experiment with a different flow restrictor for $4 instead of messing around with a second membrane plumbed in series.

As a side note, you can also lower the ratio by increasing the pressure delivered to the membrane (with a booster pump), because flow restrictors are sized assuming you are providing factory spec conditions (50 psi and 77 degrees for Filmtec membranes). Increase the pressure and you'll drive more water through the membrane and viola - less waste water. But as I mentioned above, if you do this (just like over-restricting a membrane) - the lower the waste to product ratio, the shorter the lifespan on the membrane.

Makes sense?

Russ
 

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