Dosing Kalk + CaRx

bakbay

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#1
I’m hoping to flatten out my pH curve. Mine swings between 8.2 to 8.5 — nothing is dying and I suspect it can’t be good either at +/- 0.3.

Anyone doing kalk at night? If so, are you happy with the setup and what is your fav reactor for longevity, reliability, controllability, etc? Heard lots of positives from the Avast camp…

LMK — thx
 
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#5
That's actually an elevated level great for growth. .3 swing is pretty normal for a reef.
I'm swinging 8 3 to 8.0/8.1 you could drip kalk at night just shut off ATO
 

Reefguy88

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#7
I tend to agree with Jimbo, there's not too much to be concerned about going from 8.2 to 8.5. I was chasing numbers at one point with pH and tried CO2 scrubbing in the evenings and saw some success, but eventually I stopped as the swings didn't seem like an issue worth chasing.
 

bakbay

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#8
Again, I’m not concerned but want to see if there is any growth/color difference if I stabilize/flatten out pH.

I run a GEO CaRx and recirc CO2 scrubber. Thinking of adding an Avast K1/K2 to drip Kalk at night.
 

five.five-six

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#9
No my friend - these pH ghosts keep jumping around! I would like to pin them to 8.4 all the time…lol

yes, I got issues!
When you run both, you get spikes when your kalkwasser doses. I have Ming tied to evaporation /ATO. Really the only way to have a flat pH curve would be with a very large refugium with inverse lighting schedule.

IMG_3658.png
 

bakbay

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#10
When you run both, you get spikes when your kalkwasser doses. I have Ming tied to evaporation /ATO. Really the only way to have a flat pH curve would be with a very large refugium with inverse lighting schedule.

View attachment 114443
I think that pinning to evap rate is very unpredictable, esp at night when evap is at the lowest. That’s why I’m considering to dose kalk (or soda ash) via a stirrer. Yes, this will increase my alk/ca but I can throttle down the CaRx effluent/CO2 to compensate.

Question is: if you were able to do this for extended period of time, did you notice any measurable impact?
 

bakbay

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#11
I personally very much dislike (ok, hate) refugiums - unless you're willing to commit to a sizable volume vs your DT to be effective. Besides, it’s messy! I don’t want to prune chaeto/ macro algae every few weeks!
 

drexel

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#12
Why do you want growth? Are you growing corals to sell? Trying to narrow that pH gap will send you down a rabbit hole and probably cost you one way or another (and not in a good way). I run a CaRx and dose kalk at night, but I honestly don't care about my pH swing too much and according to my apex/hydros in my two systems, it's a sizeable swing. Meanwhile, I have excellent growth and color. I don't chase numbers, I chase health. In my 40+ years of doing this, I've seen so many people chase numbers, only to spend stupid money, kill corals and fish, just because they're trying to get more growth. Why? There's a huge difference between a hobbyist's goals and a coral farm's goals. Increasing your growth by a few percentage points is meaningless (because that's about what it'll be by narrowing that gap), but to a farmer, that small percentage helps. We need to stop pretending we're farmers, when we're clearly not.
I'm all for creating stability in our systems, it can only help, but trying to alter things to narrow that pH gap seems like a waste of time and money, because if you do narrow that gap, it's not going to be a night and day difference. I think you would be better off fine tuning other aspects of your system that would achieve better growth than chasing pH, like feeding, trace elements, flow, lighting, etc......
Personally, I would put my energy elsewhere, but that's up to you.
 

Pygo

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#13
Look into the diurnal pH fluctuations of ocean water. I know we all like to see nice, pretty, even numbers on trends, but pH isn't something you should be chasing so hard(unless it's averaging below 8, which yours is not). I just read a study on acropora growth for you. The groups were pH 7.8, 8.0, 8.2, and a fluctuating group that ranged from 7.8-8.2 on a daily cycle(this group averages at 8.0, but remember that it fluctuates). 7.8 was the big loser. 8.0 was second to last. The 8.2 and the fluctuating group were statistically the same, even though the fluctuating group averages .2 pH lower. These 2 groups grew 34% faster than the 8.0 group.

Your tank looks like it averages somewhere around 8.35, which is just fine. As long as you have photosynthesis occurring in your tank, there will be natural fluctuations that aren't worth trying to stop. During the day, algae and zoox absorb CO2, which raises the pH. At night, they release CO2, which lowers your pH. This cycle occurs in every natural reef system in the world. These animals are adapted to this cycle and while the jury is still out on exactly how pH swings affect growth, research suggests that these swings are actually beneficial to their growth.

If you're just looking to experiment with your tank for fun, by all means go ahead. It probably won't be majorly destructive. But ultimately, it'll amount to added costs and headaches of extra equipment+maintenance, and still probably not seeing a perfectly even trend without precise dosing and a pH controller on a PID loop(not sure what the apex systems are capable of, but I do use similar tech at my water job).
 

bakbay

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#14
Why do you want growth? Are you growing corals to sell? Trying to narrow that pH gap will send you down a rabbit hole and probably cost you one way or another (and not in a good way). I run a CaRx and dose kalk at night, but I honestly don't care about my pH swing too much and according to my apex/hydros in my two systems, it's a sizeable swing. Meanwhile, I have excellent growth and color. I don't chase numbers, I chase health. In my 40+ years of doing this, I've seen so many people chase numbers, only to spend stupid money, kill corals and fish, just because they're trying to get more growth. Why? There's a huge difference between a hobbyist's goals and a coral farm's goals. Increasing your growth by a few percentage points is meaningless (because that's about what it'll be by narrowing that gap), but to a farmer, that small percentage helps. We need to stop pretending we're farmers, when we're clearly not.
I'm all for creating stability in our systems, it can only help, but trying to alter things to narrow that pH gap seems like a waste of time and money, because if you do narrow that gap, it's not going to be a night and day difference. I think you would be better off fine tuning other aspects of your system that would achieve better growth than chasing pH, like feeding, trace elements, flow, lighting, etc......
Personally, I would put my energy elsewhere, but that's up to you.
End of the day - we all trying to grow our corals right? Curious why you’re dosing alk at night? That’s what I’m not doing. Can you share your pH graph? I’ve good on feeding, trace elements, flow, lighting, etc! Ha

This is the tank I’m trying to “experiment” with…Full of SPS with some LPS, mushrooms on the bottom.
 

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drexel

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#15
End of the day - we all trying to grow our corals right? Curious why you’re dosing alk at night? That’s what I’m not doing. Can you share your pH graph? I’ve good on feeding, trace elements, flow, lighting, etc! Ha

This is the tank I’m trying to “experiment” with…Full of SPS with some LPS, mushrooms on the bottom.
I'm dosing at night to help with the pH dip, but I'm not trying to always maintain 8.3 24/7, just mitigate the drop a little. Yes, I want my corals to grow, that's the point, grow them to actual colony size, right? But the overall health of the corals is more important to me than growth. If your corals are healthy, they're growing just fine. My point was, most people watch all of these YT videos of vendors/farms and they talk about maintaining pH, etc....blah, blah, blah....but their sole purpose is to grow and sell coral, which is vastly different than what we're doing. Even if I was trying to sell coral, health is more important to me than anything. As I mentioned earlier, if your corals are healthy, they're growing. The juice isn't always worth the squeeze, but in the end, we're all just experimenting, finding what works in our systems. My advice is to be cautious, good intentions can have unexpected results.
 

Jimbo327

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#17
I've actually never seen anyone that has a flat pH graph. I don't even think it is possible, okay I guess if you spend a ton of money on it...anything is possible. That's why I said you are chasing a ghost.
 

bakbay

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#18
I've actually never seen anyone that has a flat pH graph. I don't even think it is possible, okay I guess if you spend a ton of money on it...anything is possible. That's why I said you are chasing a ghost.
Looks like I’m hearing a challenge? ;)

I don’t think that you’ll have to spend a ton of money though. Besides, I do need a secondary way to keep alk/ca up. Anyway, understand that pH swing is normal like the ocean but our tank is not like an ocean and prefer not to mimic it. I do “chase” Alk stability but why not pH?

Appreciate you guys trying to talk me out of it — told you I’m bored! Ha
 
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