FT small zoa colony

[gustavogomezz144]

Hello reefers I just bought a rock with 2 types of Zoas but unfortunately it was a little too big for my reef tank and I was looking to cut it in half and maybe get some other corals from one of you. I am not fully sure what zoas they are but I am open to see what your trade offers are. Also, I would have to look for someone that is able to cut the rock for me unless you have something to cut it with.

 

[joseserrano]

Looks like you are having nutrient issues. Great post for you to get your participation up.

 

[gustavogomezz144]

Looks like you are having nutrient issues. Great post for you to get your participation up.

Yea it’s a fairly new tank and it’s been getting better so I decided to get some zoas and euphyllia are on the easier side to keep


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[drexel]

That’s not a nutrient issue, that’s a lack of herbivores. You can’t control algae by lowering nutrients, that’s not how it works.


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[gustavogomezz144]

That’s not a nutrient issue, that’s a lack of herbivores. You can’t control algae by lowering nutrients, that’s not how it works.


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What do you recommend on getting to control that I do have very little CUC


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[Dipan00]

Depending on tank size Tiger Trochus are my favorite for algae control. What size tank do you have? Start with 10-20 of them depending on size of your tank.

 

[drexel]

Size of tank? I prefer snails for most things, so a mix of turbos, astraea and a tuxedo urchin. The only hermit I like is the scarlet, they tend to be less murderous than others, so I keep them in very low numbers. The key with getting snails and other inverts to help, is to remove most of the algae by hand, especially GHA, as most herbivores don’t touch the long stuff. Once it’s like turf algae (in size/length) they’ll chomp away. The thing to remember, corals and algae require the same conditions to survive, so starve one (algae) of nutrients, the other will suffer as well. Algae is really good at life, corals not so much. The reason algae doesn’t take over natural reefs is the presence of herbivores, remove them and it overtakes the reef.


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[gustavogomezz144]

Size of tank? I prefer snails for most things, so a mix of turbos, astraea and a tuxedo urchin. The only hermit I like is the scarlet, they tend to be less murderous than others, so I keep them in very low numbers. The key with getting snails and other inverts to help, is to remove most of the algae by hand, especially GHA, as most herbivores don’t touch the long stuff. Once it’s like turf algae (in size/length) they’ll chomp away. The thing to remember, corals and algae require the same conditions to survive, so starve one (algae) of nutrients, the other will suffer as well. Algae is really good at life, corals not so much. The reason algae doesn’t take over natural reefs is the presence of herbivores, remove them and it overtakes the reef.


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I see I’ll add more CUC thanks for the advice


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[Tommy Ngo]

That’s not a nutrient issue, that’s a lack of herbivores. You can’t control algae by lowering nutrients, that’s not how it works.


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A few questions must be ask first before throwing herbivores in to the system.

1. What is the setup of the system?
2. Filtration setup?
3. Feeding schedule?
4. Water change schedule?
5. Lighting schedule?

You can throw a bunch of herbivores into the system, but that won’t resolve it if the system is not well balance.

 

[tripinpn01]

That’s not a nutrient issue, that’s a lack of herbivores. You can’t control algae by lowering nutrients, that’s not how it works.


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Do you mean eliminate as opposed to control? You can still control the amount algae by making sure you don’t have excessive nutrients no?

 

[drexel]

Do you mean eliminate as opposed to control? You can still control the amount algae by making sure you don’t have excessive nutrients no?

Algae can utilize more than just nutrients to grow and they need very little to do so. But if you reduce your input (nitrogen/phosphorus) too much, you’ll starve your corals. Algae will and can use silicates, trace elements and they can utilize N/P directly from the water, which corals have very hard time doing. So Algae will out complete corals 100% of the time.

Here’s a great article that explains how corals uptake N and P. https://reefbuilders.com/2023/08/24...tes within the coral,some of its symbionts to


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[drexel]

A few questions must be ask first before throwing herbivores in to the system.

1. What is the setup of the system?
2. Filtration setup?
3. Feeding schedule?
4. Water change schedule?
5. Lighting schedule?

You can throw a bunch of herbivores into the system, but that won’t resolve it if the system is not well balance.

I agree that knowing this information will help, but it doesn’t change how our systems work. Yes, over feeding and not utilizing good export methods contribute to poor water quality and water changes will have limited effect.
I agree that there’s a balance that needs to be achieved here, but not understanding how the biological processes work in a closed system means that you’ll likely go down a rabbit hole that leads to more problems.
So let’s start by asking a few questions:
Size and age of system?
Feeding regime. How many feedings a day and what food?
Fish?
Inverts?
Live rock or dry rock? Sand?
Skimmer?
Lights and photo period?


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[Jimbo327]

If you plan to cut zoas, just make sure you wear eye protection and gloves. Palytoxin is no joke.

When you have small tank, I generally like getting just a frag of zoa so you can let it grow instead of getting a big rock...which takes up valuable space in a smaller tank.

 

[drexel]

Totally agree, zoas and palys should be treated with caution. Also, apologies for going way of subject with algae/nutrients. I have a saw if you need the rock cut up? Just pm me if you’re near the valley (SFV).


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[tripinpn01]

Algae can utilize more than just nutrients to grow and they need very little to do so. But if you reduce your input (nitrogen/phosphorus) too much, you’ll starve your corals. Algae will and can use silicates, trace elements and they can utilize N/P directly from the water, which corals have very hard time doing. So Algae will out complete corals 100% of the time.

Here’s a great article that explains how corals uptake N and P. https://reefbuilders.com/2023/08/24/study-reveals-how-corals-gain-n-and-p-in-darwins-paradox/#:~:text=Symbiotic dinoflagellates within the coral,some of its symbionts to


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I agree and understand all that but you saying "You can’t control algae by lowering nutrients, that’s not how it works." sounds like an absolute statement. It's counterintuitive especially for new reefers when we know, for example, that overfeeding can create a high nutrient system and cause an algae problem.

 

[drexel]

I agree and understand all that but you saying "You can’t control algae by lowering nutrients, that’s not how it works." sounds like an absolute statement. It's counterintuitive especially for new reefers when we know, for example, that overfeeding can create a high nutrient system and cause an algae problem.

Overfeeding any tank will cause issues and should be understood by everyone or you’re going to have a hard time getting things going. Nothing good happens fast, this statement has been around for decades in this hobby, yet people ignore it all the time. People watch some YouTube videos, read forum posts/threads and think they can start a tank and be successful? A very small percentage may get lucky, but my guess is a majority will fail or have serious issues in the beginning because they don’t understand the fundamentals of reefing. The absolute is this, if you think you can starve out algae by lowering your nutrients, you will have problems and most likely fail. For example; say you have a tank with an algae outbreak, you initially have 20ppm of N and 0.3ppm of P. We start to lower nutrients by whatever means you choose, yet the algae is still going strong. Now we get aggressive and really lower our nutrients and you test your water and get zero NO3 and 0.02 PO4, yet the algae is still going strong. What do you do? You can take N and P to zero and there would still be algae, why? We effectively lowered the nutrients to starve the algae, yet it’s still growing. I’m not saying you don’t want to have your nutrients at reasonable levels, that’s not what I’m talking about here, but the idea of lowering nutrients to manage the algae isn’t working, why? Algae can utilize trace amounts of nutrients and trace elements to survive, yet those same conditions would cause corals to starve. The reason algae doesn’t overtake corals on a reef is the presence of herbivores. Remove those herbivores and see what happens? Martin Moe wrote about these concepts in the late 80’s, so this isn’t new information, yet how many reefers these days read books on the hobby? My tank currently has about 1ppm of N and usually 0.25+ppm of P, yet the only algae I have is coralline and some valonia here and there. Why isn’t my tank overrun by algae? I also feed 6-8 times a day, do no water changes and run halides, so why is this possible?


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[tripinpn01]

Overfeeding any tank will cause issues and should be understood by everyone or you’re going to have a hard time getting things going. Nothing good happens fast, this statement has been around for decades in this hobby, yet people ignore it all the time. People watch some YouTube videos, read forum posts/threads and think they can start a tank and be successful? A very small percentage may get lucky, but my guess is a majority will fail or have serious issues in the beginning because they don’t understand the fundamentals of reefing. The absolute is this, if you think you can starve out algae by lowering your nutrients, you will have problems and most likely fail. For example; say you have a tank with an algae outbreak, you initially have 20ppm of N and 0.3ppm of P. We start to lower nutrients by whatever means you choose, yet the algae is still going strong. Now we get aggressive and really lower our nutrients and you test your water and get zero NO3 and 0.02 PO4, yet the algae is still going strong. What do you do? You can take N and P to zero and there would still be algae, why? We effectively lowered the nutrients to starve the algae, yet it’s still growing. I’m not saying you don’t want to have your nutrients at reasonable levels, that’s not what I’m talking about here, but the idea of lowering nutrients to manage the algae isn’t working, why? Algae can utilize trace amounts of nutrients and trace elements to survive, yet those same conditions would cause corals to starve. The reason algae doesn’t overtake corals on a reef is the presence of herbivores. Remove those herbivores and see what happens? Martin Moe wrote about these concepts in the late 80’s, so this isn’t new information, yet how many reefers these days read books on the hobby? My tank currently has about 1ppm of N and usually 0.25+ppm of P, yet the only algae I have is coralline and some valonia here and there. Why isn’t my tank overrun by algae? I also feed 6-8 times a day, do no water changes and run halides, so why is this possible?


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Well said and I agree. My point was that there still is some correlation and may apply to some tanks.