Help me get rid of stubborn algae

[ilyad]

Hey all,

I hope I can get some pointers on how to get rid of the stubborn algae that has been plaguing one of my tanks for months. This stuff is covering all of my rockwork and I am hesitant about putting in corals onto the main structure because it seems to choke out stuff around it. Although I am not 100% certain, it does look like green hair algae (albeit its on the slightly browner color).

Current parameters:
Temp: 77
Salinity: 1.0262
Nitrate: 0 (see comment below for more discussion)
Phosphates: 0.015
Alk: 8.7
Calc: 455
Mag: 1290
Ph: 7.93

Although my nitrates test out at 0 (using salifert), I suspect it may actually be higher and is taken up quickly by the algae.

Some of the things I have tried:
1. Tried to remove manually, both by syphon and brushing. Syphon is able to get some of it out occasionally when it gets really long and in a weaker state, but the rest stays pretty well on the rock. Brushing the rocks in a bucket of saltwater has worked well, but then it grows back fairly quickly.
2. Increased CUC. I have 5 urchins (both tuxedo and pincushion) as well as various snails. The problem seems that they dont go after it turns a bit longer, which happens very fast. So even after manual syphon or brushing, the algae grows long faster than the CUC can get it, and it then grows even faster after that.
3. Add herbivore fish. I have a starry blenny and a white tail bristletooth. They seem to have very fat bellies, but they also dont go after this stuff once it gets too long. So like the CUC, they cant keep up with the pace this stuff grows back with after manual removal.
4. Tried using NP Bacto Balance. This seemed to have worked somewhat at thinning out the algae and making it weaker for manual removal, however if I forget to dose that consistently, it would come back. Also, the few corals that are in the tank have lightened up a bit, so I discontinued use of that.
5. Tried Biodigest. Not sure if I saw any impact one way or another... possibly why Nitrate is 0?
6. Decreased my light intensity. Thinking maybe the lighting was too strong, or for too long, I dropped my photo period by one hour and reduced it to only about 80% of previous levels. Still dont see much change.

Future steps:
1. Determine if RO water has silicates or other parameters out of whack in RO and tank. I will be sending in an ICP test sometime shortly to see if my 7 stage RO is passing through silicates and whether there is some other chemistry imbalance. However, last time I did (6 months ago), everything seemed to be good, and RO tested out pure.
2. ID the algae. I will take a bit of the algae to my LFS and use their nice microscope to get a better look at this stuff to determine if its something other than green hair algae.

All that being said, while I try to get more information, I was hoping maybe someone in here can also ID this stuff, or have had it in their tank, and had success getting rid of it. I am so close to just pulling all the rocks out and using different ones, but I love the shape of these and that would be my very last resort. I am all ears for tips and suggestions.

 

[Reeferkcp]

Doesn’t look like u have too many corals glue on rock. U can take the rocks out and spray with hydrogen peroxide and scrub off algae.
Another option is fluconazole but there are some risks with that reportedly

 

[ilyad]

Doesn’t look like u have too many corals glue on rock. U can take the rocks out and spray with hydrogen peroxide and scrub off algae.
Another option is fluconazole but there are some risks with that reportedly

I have a bottle of Flux RX at home as we speak, but havent pulled the trigger for the same worries. the rocks have none of the corals on them because I have pulled and brushed the algae off previously a few times. I was thinking of spraying hydrogen peroxide, but my concern was that if I didnt fix the underlying issue and then the algae comes back a few months later if all of it wasnt taken out. And then I would have a bunch of coral on the rocks.

But maybe youre right here... perhaps if I get most of it out with peroxide, the parameters would read more true and I'll get a better handle on true nitrate/phosphate readings and can address that accordingly before it comes back.

 

[drexel]

I forget, is this dry rock or live rock? Combo? I know you picked up a few pieces of branch rock, but that stuff doesn't have too much in the way of diversity, kinda dense and not too porous.

 

[ilyad]

I forget, is this dry rock or live rock? Combo? I know you picked up a few pieces of branch rock, but that stuff doesn't have too much in the way of diversity, kinda dense and not too porous.

The rocks in the display were dry rock... there is also a mix of a few pieces of Marine Pure balls in the sump along with random branching live rock (I would say maybe about 10lbs or so). I also at one point bought a cup of that live rock in a cup to help seed more bacteria.

 

[Reeferkcp]

I have a bottle of Flux RX at home as we speak, but havent pulled the trigger for the same worries. the rocks have none of the corals on them because I have pulled and brushed the algae off previously a few times. I was thinking of spraying hydrogen peroxide, but my concern was that if I didnt fix the underlying issue and then the algae comes back a few months later if all of it wasnt taken out. And then I would have a bunch of coral on the rocks.

But maybe youre right here... perhaps if I get most of it out with peroxide, the parameters would read more true and I'll get a better handle on true nitrate/phosphate readings and can address that accordingly before it comes back.

Yes you have to address both the current algae and the underlying cause (usually nutrients issues). The safest approach to take care of the current algae is peroxide outside the tank. It is a pita but safest in my opinion.
Addressing the underlying issues is a whole other beast. I assume it’s high nutrient that requires gfo, phos-E, carbon dosing, refugium, wet skim ect ect. If bacterial diversity is your problem then might benefits from some live sand/rocks maybe? That is a complex topic to tackle though.

 

[Jimbo327]

Just my opinion, and you do what you think is best for your tank. If it was me, I would dose the Flux RX and wait 14 days. I just finished treating my tank with fluconazole, and it wiped out the hair algae completely with no issues. The trick is to siphon out as much algae as possible before you start, and run a little bit of GFO in your sump after you start treatment. This will prevent a phosphate spike when the algae dies. Add the GFO slow, so it doesn't crash your phosphate too quickly either. Turn off skimmer, UV, ozone. Run a clean filter sock.

I measured nitrate and phosphates every day during treatment. Nitrate basically stayed 0 throughout the treatment, and the phosphates was controlled via GFO in a bag. You will see minimal change in first 7 days, but that last 7 days...the algae just goes away.

Will the algae come back after treatment (fluconazole removed via carbon/ozone)? Yup! But it gives your CUC and herbivores a fighting chance. I can already see some algae slowly come back, and my rocks/glass are getting green again.

 

[ilyad]

Just my opinion, and you do what you think is best for your tank. If it was me, I would dose the Flux RX and wait 14 days. I just finished treating my tank with fluconazole, and it wiped out the hair algae completely with no issues. The trick is to siphon out as much algae as possible before you start, and run a little bit of GFO in your sump after you start treatment. This will prevent a phosphate spike when the algae dies. Add the GFO slow, so it doesn't crash your phosphate too quickly either. Turn off skimmer, UV, ozone. Run a clean filter sock.

I measured nitrate and phosphates every day during treatment. Nitrate basically stayed 0 throughout the treatment, and the phosphates was controlled via GFO in a bag. You will see minimal change in first 7 days, but that last 7 days...the algae just goes away.

Will the algae come back after treatment (fluconazole removed via carbon/ozone)? Yup! But it gives your CUC and herbivores a fighting chance. I can already see some algae slowly come back, and my rocks/glass are getting green again.

Thank you for your feedback. I will look into the process a lot more thoroughly, and pick up some GFO to have on hand. But good to hear about a positive experience. Did you end up having any issues with coral or inverts?

 

[BgFish]

Hello my friend.

I have had more issues with dry rock than I like to talk about lol. In my humble opinion I think there is a few things I would do if it were my tank:

1. increase bio diversity- this tends to happen over time, and seeding the tank with old established rock (or sand) helps- sounds like you have already done this, and time is all that’s needed to establish a healthy biome. Time and keeping proper parameters.

2. This may be antidotal, but start feeding the tank phytoplankton- in my experience phytoplankton feeds your pods- and a high pod population has seemed to really help me with nuisance algae. I don’t know if any “scientific proof” but if you have any copepods the phyto dosing- you will see a huge population boost in the pods after a few weeks. I consider a copepods and phyto dosing a MUST for young systems. At lease for a while until things get stable with nuisance algae. also- add some hermits to your clean up crew, a variety of snails, micro brittle stars, and urchins.

3. Taking rocks out and treating with h2O2 will kill the algae and will help your fight. Just be aware the die off won’t happen immediately, but instead over the next few days- and the dying algae will add nutrients to your system. So more frequent testing/water changes should be expected. Any algae you can scrub off while rocks are out of the tanks will help greatly with the nutrients.

4. gfo, phosphate E, refugium: whichever you plan on for nutrient control. You will need to adjust - once the Algea is dying and periodically after, the nutrients will rise - you’ll need to monitor and adjust ( more gfo, more phosphate E, longer light hours in refugium etc) and the. Less once things are not dying.

just be carful with the “hammer” solutions- I’ve had a lot of issues over doing gfo or phosphate e- ended up with Dinos. Personally I think a refugium is the best way to go but each has its own place in the hobby.

- lastly: this could all just be part of establishing a tank. Internet says it’s cycled once no nitrites - but I find it’s really not fully cycled (in terms of being stable parameters and biome) until the one year mark, give or take. (Every tank is different) You will most likely battle these things until it’s aged a bit.

unless your battening briopsys (spelling? Idk) I would hold off on the flux RX. It may be too big of a “hammer” considering the potential negative effects. I would go a slower more gentle approach. Sometimes in our effort to solve one problem we create another. I always think “if it’s killing the algae and bad stuff, what good stuff is it also killing?” I personally believe once the tank is mature most of your issues will go away. A big hammer may solve algae but delay or damage the biome cycle - thus prolonging your “maturing period”.


disclaimer: none of this information is proven, only taken from my own experience. There is many ways to skin a cat, so they say….

Lastly, good luck my friend. Take care and happy reefing.

 

[Jimbo327]

Yes, I had some bryopsis in my tank, and dosed with Reef Flux at half dose. And it took out the hair algae as well. For me, nothing bad happened, no deaths. I have 2 clams, inverts, crab, shrimp, soft corals, sps, torches, fishes and all kinds of snails. I journaled it in my tank build thread. So everyone definitely needs to decide what risks they are willing to take. I was always an old school type before with chemicals as last resort. But since I'm back into the hobby, I've really embraced the new school of reefing, which is more towards the chemicals side and dosing, minimal water changes. Again, everyone will have to decide how they want to run their tank and if they are willing to take certain risks. I can just provide my own experience.

I totally agree that it is very difficult to start with dead rock, and until your rocks are covered with coralline...it is harder to keep hair algae away.

 

[drexel]

Seeing the pics helps and also tells me a lot about what's going on. This isn't a nutrient issue (as far as the tank is concerned) but a rock issue. The rock is the fuel feeding the algae, it most likely has bound up organics which are feeding the algae constantly, so there's an endless supply of fuel, yet your water is going to test low in nutrients. If the dry rock wasn't "cooked" properly, then it's going to be an issue and you're not going to solve it with treatments, but they could help long term? If it were me, I would just pull the rock and replace it with real live rock or established rock from another system to save yourself the headache.
The great thing now is we know that we don't need a lot of live rock to establish a healthy diverse system.
If the algae was growing everywhere, glass, sand, walls, overflow, etc....then maybe we can say nutrients might have been an issue at one point, but where is all the algae? It looks like it's only on the rock itself? Dry rock is notorious for causing issues like this (and others), so it needs to be stripped of organics, then fully inoculated with good bacteria, which takes a very long time.
Another reason why I hate dry rock. Dinos were never an issue in this hobby 10-15 years ago, not until dry rock showed up and now every other post is about dinos, etc....all from trying to prevent pests and have a "clean" start.
Pull the rock, bleach it, then cook it for later use down the road. Chemicals/treatments aren't going to solve this issue quickly. Just my two pennies.

 

[ilyad]

Seeing the pics helps and also tells me a lot about what's going on. This isn't a nutrient issue (as far as the tank is concerned) but a rock issue. The rock is the fuel feeding the algae, it most likely has bound up organics which are feeding the algae constantly, so there's an endless supply of fuel, yet your water is going to test low in nutrients. If the dry rock wasn't "cooked" properly, then it's going to be an issue and you're not going to solve it with treatments, but they could help long term? If it were me, I would just pull the rock and replace it with real live rock or established rock from another system to save yourself the headache.
...
but where is all the algae? It looks like it's only on the rock itself? Dry rock is notorious for causing issues like this (and others), so it needs to be stripped of organics, then fully inoculated with good bacteria, which takes a very long time.

Thank you Drexel... I have also gone back and forth on the idea that the rock is what is fueling the algae, because it is mostly relegated to the rocks. But there is actually quite a lot of it all over the other places too, but not as easy to see on the photos... its on the clam shells, other small rock pieces that came from another tank when I tried to add diverse established bacteria, its all over the glass and return nozzles (its just easier to clean those, so I do pretty frequently). It used to be all over the sand and coral frags too, but it has actually subsided from those two in the last month or so, although I still dont know why.

The only thing that makes me pause about it being "rock fuel" is that for a while, these rocks were running in the system without any algae on it at all. Then out of nowhere the algae popped up and took off like crazy. Wondering if at some point some sort of imbalance happened and wiped the beneficial bacteria (or certain strains of it).

 

[drexel]

It was bound organics, which will eventually be released. It takes a while for the biological processes to take place and for the organic material to be “available” in the tank, then other areas will grow algae. It definitely came from the rocks. This happens with dry rock that hasn’t been cooked and cured properly.
Remove the rocks and see what happens. You have plenty of bacteria in the sump with the rock and media.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[ilyad]

It was bound organics, which will eventually be released. It takes a while for the biological processes to take place and for the organic material to be “available” in the tank, then other areas will grow algae. It definitely came from the rocks. This happens with dry rock that hasn’t been cooked and cured properly.
Remove the rocks and see what happens. You have plenty of bacteria in the sump with the rock and media.

Ah, good to know. Then that does change my thought! Seems like it is mostly the rock then. Bummer.

 

[Jimbo327]

Another way to do this is to take the rock out and just cure it in another container. I would take the rock out, peroxide it to get rid of the algae. Then I would put it into a small tub and add lanthanum chloride (into a filter sock) and let it sit in the same tub. This will extract the phosphates from the rocks.

 

[Tangerine Speedo]

IMHO you would need to create more biodiversity in your tank. Create more biome. You need to out compete the hair algae. In my 40G I still get GHA. where does this happen? If I clean a pump or a power head, coral warfare scars, etc. The first thing that grows there is GHA. Never anyplace else. Peroxide will work but it is only temporary, you are just creating a blank slate again. Thank @BgFish makes some really great points also.

 

[ilyad]

For anyone interested, I ended up swapping my rocks out here... The new rocks went through a small phase of algae (and scared the crap out of me). But over a few months, its almost all but disappeared. So it seems as others have mentioned, the rocks must have been nutrient bound and kept feeding the algae.

 

[daniel0112]

Thank you for the update. What is the new rock that you got. I am battling with algae too and I used dry macro rocks.

 

[dontavo27]

Post a FTS of the new rock scape.

 

[drexel]

Thank you for the update. What is the new rock that you got. I am battling with algae too and I used dry macro rocks.

That's the thing with dry rock, people assume that it's ready to go right in, but that's almost never the case. Treat all dry rock as if it came from an old system and has been dried. You need to clean and cook the rock. Bleach and a quick acid wash will do the trick 99% of the time. After it's been cleaned, you need to seed it and cook/cure the rock, this may take a long time, up to a year before it's actually seeded with the proper bacteria/biome.