Herbie Drain Issue

[GGuy]

Hi guys,

I finally got my lee mar 120 all plumed up, so i began testing it. The drain is a herbie style with two 1.5" drains and an eheim 1262 for the return.

I cannot get it to obtain a full siphon. I would like to get some opinions on the plumbing and if any changes need to be made. Here is a picture of the setup:

Im thinking I need to move the gate valve closer the outlet of the pipe, or reduce the size of the plumbing after the gate valve.

Any advice is appreciated, thanks.

 

[Zoarder]

Hi guys,

I finally got my lee mar 120 all plumed up, so i began testing it. The drain is a herbie style with two 1.5" drains and an eheim 1262 for the return.

I cannot get it to obtain a full siphon. I would like to get some opinions on the plumbing and if any changes need to be made. Here is a picture of the setup:

Im thinking I need to move the gate valve closer the outlet of the pipe, or reduce the size of the plumbing after the gate valve.

Any advice is appreciated, thanks.

picture of your overflow?

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[GGuy]

picture of your overflow?

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Cant get one right now, but the main drain is 6" shorter than the emergency.

 

[Zoarder]

Cant get one right now, but the main drain is 6" shorter than the emergency.

ok, you running 2- 3/4" returns?

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[GGuy]

Yes, I have a 1" line running from the pump into the overflow, which then splits to two 3/4" loc lines.

 

[Zoarder]

Yes, I have a 1" line running from the pump into the overflow, which then splits to two 3/4" loc lines.

it seems you might be closing and opening the gate valve too quick, its tricky fine tuning it but you have to make very slight adjustments and wait a few minutes then keep doing it till you finally get it right. takes time and patience.

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[xmas_one]

I think you went too big on your drain for that small pump. 1.5" will pull almost 1500 gph at full siphon and your pump on a good day is probably pushing 500-600 the way you have it set up. Try a 1" drain and see what happens.

 

[Terefel]

What do you mean you can't get it to start, are there bubbles coming out?
Check how far underwater the exit to your drain pipes are. They should only be submerged like an inch, otherwise the drain pipe will have too much pressure to overcome when trying to clear out the bubbles to start the siphon and it won't drain as smoothly. This happened to me when I set mine up so I thought I would throw it out there as a possibility.

 

[SchnitzelReef]

Your plumbing looks fine. I wouldn't move your gate valve, that's where it should be. What type of stand pipes did you use in your overflow?

-Start with the gate valve all the way open.
(Should be making lots of gargling noises)

-start slowly closing the gate valve until u start to see the water rising in your overflow. (Do this in very small increments)

-once the water reaches the top of your taller standpipe, it should slowly start trickling down the pipe. The trick is to get the water to barely flow down the taller pipe. So as the water starts rising higher and going down the second standpipe, this is where the fine tuning takes place. If the gate valve is CLOSED too much, the water should start rushing down the second standpipe and making noise. At this point, u will want to start slowly OPENING the gate valve until the water is barely trickling down the taller pipe. When your doing this, BARELY turn the gate valve...Like in 1/16 increments.

Not sure if that was confusing, but that's how I did mine. once I tuned/adjusted my drain, I haven't touched it since.

 

[SchnitzelReef]

I think you went too big on your drain for that small pump. 1.5" will pull almost 1500 gph at full siphon and your pump on a good day is probably pushing 500-600 the way you have it set up. Try a 1" drain and see what happens.

Not sure if it matters on the drain size. With a durso/stockman, the drain size matters a lot more. With a herbie, u can use the gate valve to create the siphon. (Obviously going too small would create a problem)

 

[newtothis]

Your plumbing looks fine. I wouldn't move your gate valve, that's where it should be. What type of stand pipes did you use in your overflow?

-Start with the gate valve all the way open.
(Should be making lots of gargling noises)

-start slowly closing the gate valve until u start to see the water rising in your overflow. (Do this in very small increments)

-once the water reaches the top of your taller standpipe, it should slowly start trickling down the pipe. The trick is to get the water to barely flow down the taller pipe. So as the water starts rising higher and going down the second standpipe, this is where the fine tuning takes place. If the gate valve is CLOSED too much, the water should start rushing down the second standpipe and making noise. At this point, u will want to start slowly OPENING the gate valve until the water is barely trickling down the taller pipe. When your doing this, BARELY turn the gate valve...Like in 1/16 increments.

Not sure if that was confusing, but that's how I did mine. once I tuned/adjusted my drain, I haven't touched it since.

I concurr......

 

[jeffreylam1132]

Your plumbing looks fine. I wouldn't move your gate valve, that's where it should be. What type of stand pipes did you use in your overflow?

-Start with the gate valve all the way open.
(Should be making lots of gargling noises)

-start slowly closing the gate valve until u start to see the water rising in your overflow. (Do this in very small increments)

-once the water reaches the top of your taller standpipe, it should slowly start trickling down the pipe. The trick is to get the water to barely flow down the taller pipe. So as the water starts rising higher and going down the second standpipe, this is where the fine tuning takes place. If the gate valve is CLOSED too much, the water should start rushing down the second standpipe and making noise. At this point, u will want to start slowly OPENING the gate valve until the water is barely trickling down the taller pipe. When your doing this, BARELY turn the gate valve...Like in 1/16 increments.

Not sure if that was confusing, but that's how I did mine. once I tuned/adjusted my drain, I haven't touched it since.

+1.....

 

[GGuy]

What do you mean you can't get it to start, are there bubbles coming out?
Check how far underwater the exit to your drain pipes are. They should only be submerged like an inch, otherwise the drain pipe will have too much pressure to overcome when trying to clear out the bubbles to start the siphon and it won't drain as smoothly. This happened to me when I set mine up so I thought I would throw it out there as a possibility.

It is about an 1.5" below water level.

Your plumbing looks fine. I wouldn't move your gate valve, that's where it should be. What type of stand pipes did you use in your overflow?

-Start with the gate valve all the way open.
(Should be making lots of gargling noises)

-start slowly closing the gate valve until u start to see the water rising in your overflow. (Do this in very small increments)

-once the water reaches the top of your taller standpipe, it should slowly start trickling down the pipe. The trick is to get the water to barely flow down the taller pipe. So as the water starts rising higher and going down the second standpipe, this is where the fine tuning takes place. If the gate valve is CLOSED too much, the water should start rushing down the second standpipe and making noise. At this point, u will want to start slowly OPENING the gate valve until the water is barely trickling down the taller pipe. When your doing this, BARELY turn the gate valve...Like in 1/16 increments.

Not sure if that was confusing, but that's how I did mine. once I tuned/adjusted my drain, I haven't touched it since.

I did exactly that, i tweaked the gate valve until there was a light trickle coming down the emergency pipe. After setting the level, there are still bubbles and noise coming from the outlet, hence there being no siphon. When it's set, i hear noises coming from near the elbow right below the gate valves, it almost sounds like air rushing through. The standpipes are straight 1.5" pipes, the main drain has a strainer on it, nothing fancy.

 

[SchnitzelReef]

It is about an 1.5" below water level.




I did exactly that, i tweaked the gate valve until there was a light trickle coming down the emergency pipe. After setting the level, there are still bubbles and noise coming from the outlet, hence there being no siphon. When it's set, i hear noises coming from near the elbow right below the gate valves, it almost sounds like air rushing through. The standpipes are straight 1.5" pipes, the main drain has a strainer on it, nothing fancy.

What is the height difference between the two pipes? If the full siphon is too close to the taller secondary drain, u will still suck air through the full siphon and get lots of noise and bubbles.

 

[SchnitzelReef]

Read this

http://gmacreef.com/herbie-overflow-reef-tank-plumbing-method-basics/

 

[GGuy]

The main drain is 6" below the emergency. I basically followed the instructions on the gmac Herbie tutorial
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[GGuy]

Dropped the main drain to 1" after the gate valve, that fixed the issue. However, I still hearing some noise at the gate valve, it sounds like its still pulling air from somewhere.

 

[lowbudget]

How big is your return pump

 

[GGuy]

900 gph, I estimated i'm getting 600 or so in reality.

 

[Fly5150]

Is your main drain about an inch into the sump? Mine would pull air when it was above the waterline in the sump, so I extended the drain down an inch below the sump waterline, bam, noise stopped.


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