Is this a real Picasso Onyx Perc???
- Thread starter jessesoto33
- Start date
NOT a Picasso, It is a Snowflake, likely to be a Blackice but wont be able to tell until it matures and you see how much black it has. There are no such clowns as a "Picasso Onyx"
Then we look at the eyes and it has Perc eyes with the yellow ring around the pupil. All this means is someone is hybridizing their fish or simply does not know what kind of clowns they are breeding to begin with? Very nice Clown to say the least, just no a Picasso. Do you know what the parents of this fish are ?
Then we look at the eyes and it has Perc eyes with the yellow ring around the pupil. All this means is someone is hybridizing their fish or simply does not know what kind of clowns they are breeding to begin with? Very nice Clown to say the least, just no a Picasso. Do you know what the parents of this fish are ?
Thats the delima here....It has all the markings and colors of a Snowflake (Ocellaris) but has the tell tell eyes of a Percula. This is why I said I think it is a hybrid of some sorts. The one true sign to tell a Percula from an Ocellaris is the eyes. Percs have the yellow ring around the pupil and Ocellaris eyes are all black. So, based on patern and color morph, it is a Ocellaris of the Snowflake variant, based on the eyes, it is a Percula. Therefore, we need to know what the parents are and try to trace the linage as far back as possible to be able to give an exact answer to this question. Most people dont care to go this far but as a breeder, we do it to ensure what we are dealing with and breeding so we know what we are selling and putting out in the market. Hybrids can be and are beautiful fish, we just need to know what it is and where it came from. If these fish were to spawn, there would be a whole seperate issue as to how to market the fish and what to call them......
Oh yea! then what do you have to say about this clown with the ring around the eye's? Looks like a picasso to me!http://blog.aquanerd.com/2010/06/misconceptions-about-designer-fish.html
Before you think you know too much here, lets review.....
The picture that was posted in this forum that started this thread is an obvious hybrid clown that has the Snowflake pattern and normal Perc. eyes. I have both Clowns in my breeding program and have done more than my fair share of research on all of the species that we are breeding. The link that you posted is clearly a Picasso, not a grade "A" but still a Picasso, second fish in that link is a Snowflake, some would call it an "extreme" or "premium" Snowflake. Either way, the Clown in question in THIS thread is NOT A PICASSO, it is a hybrid between a Percula and Ocellaris that has the Snowflake color variant. So....look at the Clown at the start of this thread and compare it to the Picasso that YOU posted in the link and compare.......They are not the same type of Clown PERIOD!! Go do yourself a favor and google pictures of Picasso and Snowflake Clowns and you will clearly see this Clown in this thread is NOT a Picasso, but a Snowflake. If you do any amount of research on Clownfish breeding and understand genetics at all, you would understand how this Clown can have the Snowflake Ocellaris pattern and Percula eyes. It is simply a case of a hybrid clown. I am all for hybrid clowns and have my own that we are working on. Hybridizing Clowns is not new, uncommon or unheard of. All that needs to be done is following the linage to know what you have and where they come from.
So, have I made it clear enough for you to understand or would you like to post more pictures and links that only prove what I posted before?
The picture that was posted in this forum that started this thread is an obvious hybrid clown that has the Snowflake pattern and normal Perc. eyes. I have both Clowns in my breeding program and have done more than my fair share of research on all of the species that we are breeding. The link that you posted is clearly a Picasso, not a grade "A" but still a Picasso, second fish in that link is a Snowflake, some would call it an "extreme" or "premium" Snowflake. Either way, the Clown in question in THIS thread is NOT A PICASSO, it is a hybrid between a Percula and Ocellaris that has the Snowflake color variant. So....look at the Clown at the start of this thread and compare it to the Picasso that YOU posted in the link and compare.......They are not the same type of Clown PERIOD!! Go do yourself a favor and google pictures of Picasso and Snowflake Clowns and you will clearly see this Clown in this thread is NOT a Picasso, but a Snowflake. If you do any amount of research on Clownfish breeding and understand genetics at all, you would understand how this Clown can have the Snowflake Ocellaris pattern and Percula eyes. It is simply a case of a hybrid clown. I am all for hybrid clowns and have my own that we are working on. Hybridizing Clowns is not new, uncommon or unheard of. All that needs to be done is following the linage to know what you have and where they come from.
So, have I made it clear enough for you to understand or would you like to post more pictures and links that only prove what I posted before?
I disagree with the notion that the eyes are a sure fire way of knowing. ORA Snowflakes have a yellow ring around their eyes. I guess it may be possible that ORA is hybridizing clowns without disclosing it, but I personally don't think that the eyes are always a positive way to tell.
http://www.orafarm.com/products/fish/clowns/snowflake.html
I am not trying to argue so I think any snide remarks are uncalled for. I am simply trying to discuss what is being asked. I have always heard that counting the spines in the dorsal fin was a more accurate way of telling.
Also I think it is inaccurate to base what species the clownfish is based on its coloration. Plenty of picasso perculas have markings that resemble the snowflake. But if you look at how the black coloration is coming in, it resembles an onyx more so than a Black Ice in my opinion.
And the possibility of it being a hybrid is not that far fetched. But then calling it either Picasso or Black Ice or Snowflake would be inaccurate.
Without different pictures of different angles, perhaps one of its dorsal. I think it is impossible for anyone to make a 100% positive ID.
http://www.orafarm.com/products/fish/clowns/snowflake.html
I am not trying to argue so I think any snide remarks are uncalled for. I am simply trying to discuss what is being asked. I have always heard that counting the spines in the dorsal fin was a more accurate way of telling.
Also I think it is inaccurate to base what species the clownfish is based on its coloration. Plenty of picasso perculas have markings that resemble the snowflake. But if you look at how the black coloration is coming in, it resembles an onyx more so than a Black Ice in my opinion.
And the possibility of it being a hybrid is not that far fetched. But then calling it either Picasso or Black Ice or Snowflake would be inaccurate.
Without different pictures of different angles, perhaps one of its dorsal. I think it is impossible for anyone to make a 100% positive ID.
Dorsal spine count and eyes have the same percentage of being acurate. You have to take into acount all the hybrids. Out of a clutch of hybrid Clowns, one fry could have the spine count of a Perc and eyes of an Ocellaris and another fry could have the spine count of an Ocellaris and eyes of a Perc. And yes ora does a lot of hybridizing so not shocking they show a Snowlfake with Perc eyes! As far as a it being a Picasso, Snowflake or Blackice......Do you know how you get a Blackice? It is a cross between a Snowflake and a Darwin (Black & White) so, to say it looks more like an Onyx than a Blackice is like saying a Dove looks more like a bird than a Dove? I think you are missing something here....Why and how do we have all these different names for designer clowns, like the Blackice, Snowflake, Picasso, Fancy White, Platinum etc......? All those names are based on the coloration and patterns of each fish. The one posted in this thread has the colors and patterns of a Snowflake. If you look at the picture of our male Ocellaris, he has a ton of black filling in, yet he is still just a normal Ocellaris. Our male Snowflake also has a ton of black filling in. Since the one male is a Snowflake and turning more black, leads one to think that he is possibly a Blackice, the female could be also, just without all the extra black so she would never be called a Blackice, only a Snowflake. Do you see where I am going with this? All designer clowns are named based on the color and patterns they have plain and simple. So if the Clown in question in this thread has black eyes, then there is no doubt that is a very nice Snowflake. Once the fish matures and all the black comes in, then it could or could not be considered a Blackice (all based on genetics) If we knew the Linage of this Clown that would help, but we dont.
