its starting!

[Leandre]

So, after months of waiting, the wife finally gives me the ok to start on the tank.
previously i had wanted a FOWLR, but my son has recently been watching Octonauts and is now loves anything ocean/sea/fish. that might have pushed my wife into allowing this, either way im taking it!

ok, the current tank i have is a 220g glass. 72lx24wx30t with a 50g sump.
since the wife likes corals that wave around, we've (she) decided to go for a soft/lps tank with the option to add sps in the future, ive made a list minus plumbing equipment, it is as follows:

60lb fiji pink sand
250lb dry live rock
Tunze ATO
Skimz monzter SM251 skimmer
Emperor aquatics smart UV 40 watt
ATi 60" 8x80w sun power
Sicce Syncra HF 12.0 pump
2x Tunze turbelle stream 6105
BRS 6 stage 150gpd RO/DI
Apex wf lab grade PH probe
2x Finnex HMO-300w heater
red sea test kit (N03/P04)
red sea test kit (CA/ALK/MG)
BRS 2 part doser package 1g
Flipper mag cleaner
HW marinemix reefer salt
BRS single reactor
1g BRS ROX 0.8 carbon
0.5g BRS gfo
refractometer

the plan is to run a manifold leading towards the UV, Reactor and refuge. i plan to have x5 flow from the return to allow more time in the sump and rest from the two tunze. also i plan to have a DIY algae scrubber (also running of the manifold) and use vodka dosing.

now i have questions, would be really appreciate if you guys could help me out.

1: is the 8 bulb ATi needed? i picked it for future upgrade reasons, plus it was only a little more expensive. but if its really not needed, i'll go with the 6 tube. if i did need this would it be ok to run 6 bulb on a 8?

2: what color bulbs are recommended for a 6 and 8? for 6 im thinking 3xw 2xb and 1x purple?

3: are the Tunze going to be enough flow? if not should be getting another or smaller ones to supplement?

4: been reading that vodka dosing requires a larger skimmer, is the one i picked good and big enough?

5: if iam vodka dosing, is gfo still required?

6: im still really confused about dosing, i know why it must be done but i dont know about the difference between each method 2part, kalk, bio pellets. is anyone better imo?

7: testing, i picked the red sea ones as i dont really know what i should be testing down the road, im reading alk is high on that list. dont really want to shell out $50 per hanna is i dont know what i should be doing.

im sure there are a ton of question that i dont even know, any and all feed back is very much appreciated. sorry for the long post and thank you again.

 

[Jetsetter57]

Hey Andy. Welcome and I'm also in chino hills if you ever need any help. As far as your dosing questions I'd hold off on that part until you get your more high maintenance corals like the sps in the future. I've heard more horror stories from dosing than I care to share especially from people just starting out with corals.

You can absolutely run 6 bulbs in an 8 bulb but on a tank your size the full 8 should be fine. How long/wide is the lighting setup?

Test kits are a get what you pay for item, that being said I believe Hanna is the top of the line but you shouldn't need to worry about that until the sps days. Red Sea should be fine to start out with and this forum often has a few used kits come up every so often so you can save a little money on them if you want. The most detrimental thing to soft corals could be your fish selection more than your water parameters. You said you wanted fowlr first, most likely some of your fish are not reef safe.

Feel free to text me anytime and hopefully some others will chime in with bulb advice. I'll send you a pm with my number if you need anything.

 

[Reefer6]

So, after months of waiting, the wife finally gives me the ok to start on the tank.
previously i had wanted a FOWLR, but my son has recently been watching Octonauts and is now loves anything ocean/sea/fish. that might have pushed my wife into allowing this, either way im taking it!

ok, the current tank i have is a 220g glass. 72lx24wx30t with a 50g sump.
since the wife likes corals that wave around, we've (she) decided to go for a soft/lps tank with the option to add sps in the future, ive made a list minus plumbing equipment, it is as follows:

60lb fiji pink sand
250lb dry live rock
Tunze ATO
Skimz monzter SM251 skimmer
Emperor aquatics smart UV 40 watt
ATi 60" 8x80w sun power
Sicce Syncra HF 12.0 pump
2x Tunze turbelle stream 6105
BRS 6 stage 150gpd RO/DI
Apex wf lab grade PH probe
2x Finnex HMO-300w heater
red sea test kit (N03/P04)
red sea test kit (CA/ALK/MG)
BRS 2 part doser package 1g
Flipper mag cleaner
HW marinemix reefer salt
BRS single reactor
1g BRS ROX 0.8 carbon
0.5g BRS gfo
refractometer

the plan is to run a manifold leading towards the UV, Reactor and refuge. i plan to have x5 flow from the return to allow more time in the sump and rest from the two tunze. also i plan to have a DIY algae scrubber (also running of the manifold) and use vodka dosing.

now i have questions, would be really appreciate if you guys could help me out.

1: is the 8 bulb ATi needed? i picked it for future upgrade reasons, plus it was only a little more expensive. but if its really not needed, i'll go with the 6 tube. if i did need this would it be ok to run 6 bulb on a 8?

2: what color bulbs are recommended for a 6 and 8? for 6 im thinking 3xw 2xb and 1x purple?

3: are the Tunze going to be enough flow? if not should be getting another or smaller ones to supplement?

4: been reading that vodka dosing requires a larger skimmer, is the one i picked good and big enough?

5: if iam vodka dosing, is gfo still required?

6: im still really confused about dosing, i know why it must be done but i dont know about the difference between each method 2part, kalk, bio pellets. is anyone better imo?

7: testing, i picked the red sea ones as i dont really know what i should be testing down the road, im reading alk is high on that list. dont really want to shell out $50 per hanna is i dont know what i should be doing.

im sure there are a ton of question that i dont even know, any and all feed back is very much appreciated. sorry for the long post and thank you again.

1. Since your tank is 30" tall id keep the fixture you have especially if you plan to have sps in the future.

2. As far as bulbs go, you cant go wrong with Geisemann or ATI, I'm using Geisemann right now and love them. My order is actinic blue, actinic blue, super actinic, actinic blue, azure blue, super purple, actinic blue, actinic blue. Personally the tanks is still a little white/purple for my taste so Ive thought or replacing the azure or purple with another actinic blue.

3. I've never used those tunzes, so I cant comment.

4. Your skimmer will be fine.

5. Once your vodka dosing regimen becomes established and nutrients are low you may not need GFO anymore. I used GFO to bring my phosphate low and then my biopellets, once they got established they kept phosphate and nitrate low so I was able to take off the GFO reactor. Biopellets and vodka dosing are both forms of carbon dosing and will ultimately give you the same results.

6. 2part is dosing carbonate(Alk) and calcium to your tank to replenish what is used by what your tank consumes to grow. (Coral, coralline, shells etc) and will definitely be needed at some point in you reef. Kalkwasser is great at keeping the calcium very stable in your tank but essentially it is not needed until you have your parameters (2part) where you want them. I put kalk in my ATO reservoir and that doses kalk automatically. Biopellets are for controlling nutrients, it harbors denitrifying bacteria and other to consume nitrate and phosphate produced in the tank; then as pellets slough off the bacteria the skimmer removes it from the tank. They are awesome once established and the bacteria they release is will also feed the inverts in your tank (corals, sponges, gorgonians, feather dusters etc.). They are easy and low maintenance and work very well and Id recommend them if your planning on having a lot of fish to feed in your reef. As with any type of dosing or nutrient control however, you must test regularly at the beginning when setting up a new piece of equipment until you notice the paramenters your testing for become stable and predictable. And add/increase dose slowly.

7. I use red sea test kits as well. I like them all except the magnesium test sucks, and phosphate at low levels is very difficult to read. But everyone perceives colors differently.

 

[innerspark]

From my calculations those 2 pumps will give you 30x turn over in the display at full power. Personally I like allot more flow then that but I am also a SPS guy and I run 150x right now at my peak of the day. If you add one more of those pumps to the display that will get you close to 50x. Anyways good luck with the build!

 

[Leandre]

thank you for the replies guys!

@ [MENTION=6947]Refeer6 [/MENTION=6947]: to clarify, the lights/skimmer is fine. super actinic gives off more blue then the actinic blue? does the tank need to be blue? As for dosing, let me get this right: gfo/vodka from the start > add cleaning crew > small fish > softies > add lps > add 2part > once stable can stop gfo > start adding kalk to ato. as im doing this im testing daily to monitor parameters and that this order will change base on the results of test? you say vodka and bio pellets are pretty much give you the same results, would this also apply to the algae scrubber? if so, pick one and go with it? may i also ask, what do you currently test on a daily/weekly basis? if there's someing that most/all reefers check on a daily/weekly basis i would probably get a hanna then suffer reading colour charts. again, thanks for the reply!


@ [MENTION=6947]innerspark[/MENTION]: thanks for the reply, ive read that x10 is good for softies, x30 for lps, and i cant remember what the X is for sps, but, i really dont want to run everything on 100%, so with your advice i will probably get 3 and run them at 60% ish then add a fourth if we get sps or find a cheaper alternative. i know Sicce make cheaper ones. i dont think sps are even in the foreseeable future. a learning in progress kinda thing at the moment. for a different brand what would you recommend?

 

[innerspark]

@ [MENTION=6947]innerspark[/MENTION]: thanks for the reply, ive read that x10 is good for softies, x30 for lps, and i cant remember what the X is for sps, but, i really dont want to run everything on 100%, so with your advice i will probably get 3 and run them at 60% ish then add a fourth if we get sps or find a cheaper alternative. i know Sicce make cheaper ones. i dont think sps are even in the foreseeable future. a learning in progress kinda thing at the moment. for a different brand what would you recommend?

Personally after picking up a few MP40's used I will never go back to any other brand for pumps. These thing just keep on working and its nice having the motor out of the water and not having wires in my tank. If you watch the dry goods section here and on other sites you can some times find them as low as $200 a pump and then if you have a apex you can actually set up some really cool random flow patterns. One think I have learned in this hobby is some things you can go cheap with and others its just a waist of time and/or cost more money in the long run. But ultimately its your reef and what works for you may not work for anyone else.

I just noticed your vodka dosing question. When I carbon dose I do still run GFO but that is me. I strive to have a ultra clean system, dose not always work out that way though. What I would do is start out running GFO and carbon. Watch your nitrate and phosphate levels. If you'r phosphate goes up, change your gfo. If you have a hard time keeping lower nitrates then carbon dose. Some people try to keep their levels at 0 or untraceable. Personal experience shows that our systems seam to get better coral growth with a little bit of both in your system. Lots of research is key for figuring out whats going to work best for you and allot of trial and error.

 

[Leandre]

Thanks for the reply!
i see, so it's really different for each tank. Best to keep testing and find what best works for me. Was I right in thinking that bio pellets, vodka and scrubber all fall into one category? If so I rather vodka dose. Less things to plug in.

As for pumps. I'm really leaning on the Wav by neptune, since I'm getting an apex it would work well with it. Reading that they compare to mp40s and the 1 link can acomadate 3 pumps with one power supply. Price wise it's cheaper too.

 

[innerspark]

Thanks for the reply!
i see, so it's really different for each tank. Best to keep testing and find what best works for me. Was I right in thinking that bio pellets, vodka and scrubber all fall into one category? If so I rather vodka dose. Less things to plug in.

As for pumps. I'm really leaning on the Wav by neptune, since I'm getting an apex it would work well with it. Reading that they compare to mp40s and the 1 link can acomadate 3 pumps with one power supply. Price wise it's cheaper too.

Vodka, Vinegar, Sugar and Bio-Pellets are different forms of carbon dosing. Now if your talking about an algae scrubber I see that as a different way to grow micro algae which will feed off phosphates in your tank. The idea behind carbon dosing is to limit nitrates by providing a carbon source that bacteria feeds off as well as the nitrates and then your skimmer removes them. Ideally since you wont have a large amount of nitrate you wont have a large amount of phosphate because of this but once again every system is different. One thing I am learning is unless you have a largely over stocked tank with lots of nitrates you really don't need to carbon dose as well as soft corals tend to like dirty water then the SPS I grow. I may be wrong on some of this but this is a highlight of what I know around carbon dosing.

I think to start out it's best to follow KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid). Start with a good skimmer, fuge with micro algae, and running carbon and GFO and see where you land with that. As the bio-load grows in your system you will eventually need to change some things out to keep things under control but it will save you money until that point and allow you tro grow into your tank and learn better then just jumping straight into the deep end. Plus you may never need a algae scrubber or to carbon dose. My 75 gallon ran smoothly with 3 tangs, 2 clowns, 3 wrasses, and a royal gramma + a ton of SPS and all I used was a skimmer, refugium, and gfo.

 

[Leandre]

Once again, thanks for the reply. I like this kiss thing lol. I've read that it's best to start vodka early on rather an established tank. Guess I didn't think what "early" means. Guess 3-6months is still early. Regarding the nitrates thing. I do like algae scrubber the most. Just having two lights running is putting me off, hence vodka. Even if some things don't need to be started till maybe month 3+ i still like to know what going with so I can plan space and such. Still a few months before I start this so not rushing this. Most definitely in the deep end lol it's like buying a car when I don't know to drive.

 

[innerspark]

Once again, thanks for the reply. I like this kiss thing lol. I've read that it's best to start vodka early on rather an established tank. Guess I didn't think what "early" means. Guess 3-6months is still early. Regarding the nitrates thing. I do like algae scrubber the most. Just having two lights running is putting me off, hence vodka. Even if some things don't need to be started till maybe month 3+ i still like to know what going with so I can plan space and such. Still a few months before I start this so not rushing this. Most definitely in the deep end lol it's like buying a car when I don't know to drive.

Question: why vodka and not vinegar and or sugar dosing? From my reading and picking peoples brains, vinegar is the only one of the carbon dosing sources that does not inhibit the growth of red slime. Plus you can get a 1 gallon jug of vinegar for less then a bottle of vodka normally.

Link to some vinegar.
http://www.webstaurantstore.com/distilled-white-vinegar-4-1-gallon-bottles-case/101VINGRWHTE.html

I buy mine at costco but may switch that up now that I found this place. I go through about 1-2 gallons of vinegar a month as I use it for the reef tank, cleaning aquarium components, cleaning things around the house and cooking at times.

 

[Leandre]

sneaking a shot of vinegar doesn't work as well as vodka...honestly it's just that's what I read about first. I'm no more inclined to pick vodka. If vinegar works better then i use it. But carbon dosing would negate the need for a scrubber/pellets/cheatos right? The original plan was to wait till patch had a $1 gallon sale and Get a 10g, break it apart son I get two chambers at each side with an opening top and bottom. Drill two holes for light bulbs in the side abs paint the outside black to keep the light in, then have this diy scrubber over the rock only refuge. But since I picked a bigger slimmer vodka seemed better plus nothing to plug in.

 

[Reefer6]

thank you for the replies guys!

@ [MENTION=6947]Refeer6 [/MENTION=6947]: to clarify, the lights/skimmer is fine. super actinic gives off more blue then the actinic blue? does the tank need to be blue? As for dosing, let me get this right: gfo/vodka from the start > add cleaning crew > small fish > softies > add lps > add 2part > once stable can stop gfo > start adding kalk to ato. as im doing this im testing daily to monitor parameters and that this order will change base on the results of test? you say vodka and bio pellets are pretty much give you the same results, would this also apply to the algae scrubber? if so, pick one and go with it? may i also ask, what do you currently test on a daily/weekly basis? if there's someing that most/all reefers check on a daily/weekly basis i would probably get a hanna then suffer reading colour charts. again, thanks for the reply!

[MENTION=10802]Leandre[/MENTION] Lights: the tank doesn't need to be blue, its mostly personal preference. corals would grow just fine under a more white color as well or even all blue bulbs. I lean more heavily on blue spectrum while still adding a few other color bulbs for a diverse spectrum. The actinic blue is comparable to ATI Blue plus, while the super actinic is an actinic bulb which will help bring out fluorescence, It wont seem very bright to our eyes but does help with coral coloration.

I think innerspark hit it perfectly with KISS. Personally I wouldn't start up a new tank with carbon dosing from the start because your system may not need it and it could make the tank too clean with not enough nutrient for the coral to survive. I would however use GFO and carbon because rocks do tend to leach out phosphate if they weren't cured for it. I wish I had used GFO when I set up my new system from moving, I didn't use it because I didn't have any fish in there and thought that there wouldn't be any phosphate, even though the rocks were from my old tank with near 0 PO4; the water in my new system tested .16 phosphate in the first few week from the rocks leaching it out; I was unpleasantly surprised * I did however use some dry rock that was once live from another person's tank breakdown... I believe this is where the phosphate came from. Currently I'm running GFO and carbon as well while the rock is taking care of nitrate with the amount of fish in there. Every system is different and the tests will dictate what is needed. When first setting up my doser I tested KH for the first 3 days since I have sps and KH can change pretty quickly, then It went down to every other day or third day once I started seeing it was stable. Now I test about once a week for KH, Ca. I test PO4 about once a week since that is a concern in my tank. Nitrate about once a month because Ive had 1ppm nitrate since setting up the new tank and haven't added new fish or increased feeding. KH is probably the most important to test regularly since this can drop quickly and a small spike can kill some sensitive corals. Ca tends to stay a little more stable and mg even more so. It really comes down to what parameter youre trying to correct or a matter of how stable that parameter has been historically.

 

[Leandre]

[MENTION=10802]Leandre[/MENTION] Lights: the tank doesn't need to be blue, its mostly personal preference. corals would grow just fine under a more white color as well or even all blue bulbs. I lean more heavily on blue spectrum while still adding a few other color bulbs for a diverse spectrum. The actinic blue is comparable to ATI Blue plus, while the super actinic is an actinic bulb which will help bring out fluorescence, It wont seem very bright to our eyes but does help with coral coloration.

I think innerspark hit it perfectly with KISS. Personally I wouldn't start up a new tank with carbon dosing from the start because your system may not need it and it could make the tank too clean with not enough nutrient for the coral to survive. I would however use GFO and carbon because rocks do tend to leach out phosphate if they weren't cured for it. I wish I had used GFO when I set up my new system from moving, I didn't use it because I didn't have any fish in there and thought that there wouldn't be any phosphate, even though the rocks were from my old tank with near 0 PO4; the water in my new system tested .16 phosphate in the first few week from the rocks leaching it out; I was unpleasantly surprised * I did however use some dry rock that was once live from another person's tank breakdown... I believe this is where the phosphate came from. Currently I'm running GFO and carbon as well while the rock is taking care of nitrate with the amount of fish in there. Every system is different and the tests will dictate what is needed. When first setting up my doser I tested KH for the first 3 days since I have sps and KH can change pretty quickly, then It went down to every other day or third day once I started seeing it was stable. Now I test about once a week for KH, Ca. I test PO4 about once a week since that is a concern in my tank. Nitrate about once a month because Ive had 1ppm nitrate since setting up the new tank and haven't added new fish or increased feeding. KH is probably the most important to test regularly since this can drop quickly and a small spike can kill some sensitive corals. Ca tends to stay a little more stable and mg even more so. It really comes down to what parameter youre trying to correct or a matter of how stable that parameter has been historically.

thank you very much for the info, the light i was referring to was in the refuge. ie, if carbon, pellets, cheato and scrubber kinda all do the same thing i would pick carbon since i wouldnt need to add light underneath. since then i have thought very hard about what innerspark has said and decided that "kiss" is a very good mantra to have for a beginner. so now im having a reg fuge with cheato's, a grow light and left over dry live rock. and changing things as i need too.

the bottom paragraph is very useful information, i'am still confused about what i should be testing once the tank is past its beginning stages. with this i have a somewhat better understanding of this.

i made a post on the "equipment" section from another member about bulb combinations:
http://www.socalireefs.com/forums/showthread.php?77292-Ati-t5-best-combo
but im still at a lost as to what i should do, i dont really like a blue tank, if you have time i would really apriciate you having a look at that thread. i added a URL of a tank that i liked in terms of colour and i want to try for that look. if you could give me some insight on this it would be awesome.

once again thanks for the info ^^