jeffersonreef is not so fast

Bergovoy · Aug 8, 2007

Well, some, at least one, would say I did not wait til the end of the completion deadline, I could not resist replying toa thread he had on another forum where he was asking for money, (appartenlty that was a joke, but I had no way of knowing as RCmods deleted teh links or otehr info that could have tipped me off).

So, with his choice to goof on money issues, I chose to make sure that everyone knew he has been jerking me around for more then four months.

He approached me originally after I ws ripped off by another Website develpoer thta took three months to come up with just a couple of pages, he claimed he could do better work and faster.

He started off by not wanting money up front, but shortly after he started, he proposistioned me, that if I paid him up front, he would be very appreciative, and he could get a used tank from another RC member with the money I gave him...

Well needless to say, his appreciation disappeared, cause I heard nothing but excuse after excuse, some were probably valid, but after almost four months, and watching him post over and over again on the other forum I got tired...

The website should not be so hard, (time wise), at least that is what he told me originally, and what others tell me...

He claims he has only been working on it for two months not the four, needless to say, I got the emails and proof on my hosting site of when he got access to the site to begin work...

Regardlss thoug, two months is too long, especially if you got paid in advance and you state you will show your appreciation by prioritizingmy project ahead of his recreation... ((Maybe if he wasnt busy with the new tank he would be working on my project??))

Anyways, be wary of him, he is young, and seems to not care about comitment or others concerns.

Good luck should you choose to work with him

Bill

(The above statements are my opinion and feelings)

Bebo77 · Aug 8, 2007

lol.. you kill me bill

Xycron · Aug 9, 2007

what kind of site are you trying to get made? I'll make it, and you can pay me after, but you don't get any of the files until you pay, you can view my work from my server, and from screenshots, but I've been stolen before. I'm no expert so I may not be able to do exactly what your asking, but I can do lots.

jeffersonReef · Aug 9, 2007

Setting the record straight.

Just want to set the record straight. First, let me say that I am not one to air dirty laundry, especially not in public on a message board. That should send up a warning flag to anyone reading this as to Bill's level of maturity/ mental stability.

Here are the facts. In April, Bill and I chatted back and forth about the possibility of doing a site for him. He still had another developer working on the site, but gave me access to his ftp account so that I could check things out. I never committed to doing the site, but said that I would be willing to help.

In late May, I told him that I wanted to buy a used tank from a RC member, and needed some quick $$, and so I would do his site for a measly $200. I asked if he could front me $140. He agreed. We agreed that his site would allow him to easily update the site (I considered using PHP initially to generate a CMS, but later decided on another route) as well as possibly a web cam, and a photo gallery. Lastly, we would post his aquacontroller stuff on there. Initially, I told him I should be able to get it done in 2-3 weeks, but that was before we discussed some more details. I never gave another estimate.

June 2nd (about 2 months ago), I met him at his house and collected the $140. 2 days later, I sent over an official contract so that we could keep it all legit (and avoid crap like this)

A week or 2 later, I came down with a bad case of salmonela poisoning (while in mexico on business). I spent a day in the hopsital, and lost 12lbs in 3 days. I was sick for a week and a half. I also had an anniversary a week before, and took my wife out of town. Then, about a month after agreeing to do the site, my father in law died. Needless to say I have had a crappy past 2 months. since I have a fulltime job, Bill's project was pushed aside. I was in contact with him via email, and he seemed anxious but understanding. We chatted back and forth about some personal probs he was going through, and it seemed we had an understanding.

Last week, I got an annoyed email from Bill stating that he was dissapointed and felt like he should have seen something by now. So, I agreed, and gave a hard deadline of Aug 15 (next week). I paid a friend to do a little work in photoshop and do the images for Bills site banners etc. I also sent Bill a list of stuff I needed from him in order to get the site up. This was Friday, Aug 3.

Next I hear from Bill was from his rant on RC bashing me. I simply posted a link to the subserviant programmer, a site that has a mock-webcam pointed at a guy who will obey your commands. Berg just flipped out...

Anyway, sorry for the long post, that is the whole history. He claims that I gave all these excuses, but the fact of the matter is of course he is anxious, but if he wasnt gonna be flexible considering some of the bad stuff that happened to me, then he should have said so sooner, rather than telling me he understood that family/etc comes first. Also, he should have waited till next week to bash me. I was gonna finish the site.

I even called him yesterday after he dissed me, and rather than tripping out on him, told him that we had an agreement, and so I would like to either finish the site or refund his $140 in whole. his response? HE HUNG UP ON ME. He sent me an email cursing me out and telling me he was gonna bash me on every board he can think of. I dont troll around looking for people to do sites for. I am a professional, and have no shortage of work, beleive me. Xycose, if you would like to finish his site, you are more than welcome to. You will be the third person this year to try to get it done for him. Feel free to pm me and I will give you everything I have and you can use it, or not. I dont really care. Bill, I wish you the best, and I hope that you derive some pleasure/satisfaction out of wrongfully bashing me on everyboard you can find.

jeffersonReef · Aug 9, 2007

Bebo77 said:

Bebo, I like your socalireef avitar way better than your RC one.

RTG · Aug 9, 2007

Well said.

SteveU

sandman450f · Aug 9, 2007

I have to agree well said, always 2 sides to a coin. NOW, lets all just get along and let bygones be bygones shall we?

sps_addict · Aug 9, 2007

it's good to hear both sides of the story.

Bergovoy · Aug 9, 2007

OHHH

This is going to be LONG. Oh it is a good thing to get two sides to every story... I am sure satan has some good ones on GOD...

There is a right and a wrong...

Understand and remember history...

I got banned from RC. Why, cause I started a thread where I dis someone for ripping me off, by taking my money and flaking for three months...

In steps TONY. He is here to save the day. He can do it better, he can do it faster, he can do it cheaper. He read the thread, he saw what the other guy did, he heard me say the same things about that guy that I am saying about him now...

But he convinces me to work with him and give him money up front, and in return *which is already past the timeframe he orignally gave me) AND IN RETURN, he assures me he will EXPEDITE the project...

I will address his comments below, respectively, which is why this will be effing long, probably several messages long...

So for those that care, or those that dont but want to see the train wreck, here goes...

My maturity level is aparently miles higher then your respect for your name, as it is almost four months later on a project that was supposed to take 2-3 weeks. And unfortunatly for you, you cant produce anything to support you even attempted to work on this project, even though you apprecited me giving you money before you show me anything for it?

I never comitted to anything, cause you offered to show me something for nothing. NO COMITTMENT from me, but you comitted to show me something that would be better looking, easier to maintain, and be done faster. The deal was, if I liked that, yuo wold use that to complete the project, and it would take two to three weeks.

After a month, I sent you an email asking about what whas going on and when I could see something, cause I had terminated my arrangement with the other guy from the east cost that had taken three months to creat a title page and picture page. (more then you did)

No mention of measily $200, as that is exactly what I paid the other guy, and You said that was a fair amount. until now, must not like the deal any more now you have my money and have nothing to show for it, MEASILY??? No wonder you make jokes about being broke when you take other peoples money and dont do anything for it in return, except make excuses...

I reluctantly agred and said so, the discussion ensued about how he would not charge me full amount when it was all done, and I stated that I had agreed to the two hundredn and was budgeted for $200, so it should not change. BUT, I did express, concern that you wanted money before you had shown me any samples or progress work. and that it was past the date when you said it would be ready for me to review. You agreed to bring something with you when you came to my house to pick up the money, but of course, you came with friends and could not spend any time with me to review the site, (or you didnt have anything to show me), either way, I still did not have what you said you would bring.

I then redifined the schedule, to include your comitment to show your appreciation for my advanccing you money by way of you agreeing to prioritize this project. This is confirmed in my email to you on June 8, again after the time you said you would have something for me, (As confirmed in your email to me on June 11. In your email to me on june 11, you agreed that you were behind, and that you understood my position. You also confirmed my email and my understanding that you were to expedit this project...

Not suer what you are saying here, but the details never changed, the scope never changed, You suggested different wys for me to get whatever it was that I want, i.e. the pictures, the comments for the pictures for identification, how to update the stuff from the Aquacontroller, *which you said you were not sure how to do, but would figure it out and or talk with some one about it, (I sent you the VB file from the other guy in hopes you could see how he did it, so you could do the sasme thing..

Generic wording, with feeble attempt to describe the website, but lacking in one thing!!!
No Completion Date!!!!

I asked forhim to email me a completion date...I asked repeatedly!!! I just got it three weeks ago

It took longer to get the completion date, then the project was supposed to take.

It took longer to get the contract then the project was supposed to take. He spent more time drafting a worthless paper then he did drafting my website

and I assume you have 1-2 weeks of work completed then???

My mom had a stroke four months ago, she had a blood clot two months ago, I had back surgery last month, after endurring the problems of the bd back for year while exploring every option prior to going under the knife. My Daughter has been having issues with school and failing grades, and we have been dealing with family issues with her and her mother, so, not to dismiss his family and personal issues, but we all have them, and the mor the reason to either complete what we say we will complete, when we say they will be done, or better yet, not take on extra things that you can not complte in a reasonable amount of time...

Bergovoy · Aug 9, 2007

Bill's project was pushed aside. I was in contact with him via email, and he seemed anxious but understanding. We chatted back and forth about some personal probs he was going through, and it seemed we had an understanding.
[/quote]I had to be understanding, what else could I possibly do, you had my money... And regardless, I still tried to believe that you would come through, hope after hope, only to be let down again and again. The time when you claimed to have lost your license to the dmv screwup or something,really ticked me off. Like okay, you cant drive, you are home, what else you got to do, but work on my site... But no, you have time to post on rC though... Go figure, again I am taking second to somethng else you would rather do

You gave me that HARD DATE backon June 20th, after I sent numerous emails. You gave me a hard date of longer then te 2-3 weeks you told me originally that it would take. And you had allegedly already done some work...[quote]. I paid a friend to do a little work in photoshop and do the images for Bills site banners etc. I also sent Bill a list of stuff I needed from him in order to get the site up. This was Friday, Aug 3.[/quote]He sent me alist of thing he wanted from, and when I found he wanted and or needed things and waited to the last minute to tell me, pissed me off also. If he wanted me to write descriptions and supply pictures, he should have told me three months earlier...

As of paying someone to do that artwork/graphic, maybe you should have given me his number, I would have paid him to do my website...

Yup, I flipped out.... I see a thread where yuo are asking people for money. I have no way of seeing that it is a joke of any kind, but based upone what you stated you are asking local reefers, people I know, but people that dont know the problems I have had with you, people that I want to have information about you and this arrangemtn,prior to them giving you more money... Yes, I flipped out, you take money from me and dont produce anythng, and then seem to want to comitt to others if they give you money... Yes, I flipped out.

But, even with that, I acknowledge that you had til the fifteenth to complete. But do you stand up and say, HEY I WILL BE DONE.

Nope, you say, "...I wish the site was done and uploaded this morning, so that I could send you a link right now, and make you look like a fool. That would be really embarrasing for you considering your outburst on the boards... but alas, the so-called "excuses" that I have given you (a family death, my salmonela poisoning, and my anniversary trip) have gotten in the way of your all-important project..." ACTUAL QUOTE FROM YOUR EMAIL OF YESTERDAY

I wish you had the site done too, i would love to look like a fool, I would love to have the site DONE, but your excuses, and the excuses you did not offer me, i.e. you wer etoo busy with your friends, you were too busy posting on RC, you were too busy with setting up a new tank, etc...

You got nothing, you would not have had anything come the fifteenth except another excuse.

I have over 34 emails to yhou THIRTY FOUR,,, OMG

If I got 34 emails from a client,I would do everything to complete that project and move on and away... You did the exact opposite, you kept stalling and tying to prevent the inevitable, and thta is you can not produce.

I think it is the tie in to the aquacontroller. It is just a guess, but I think you dont have a clue, and you have not asked anyone or admitted it to me since I have already given you the money.

I base this on the several emails where you admit you dont know, and ask me to send ytou the files that the other guy created so you can look at them to try to figur it out...

I did and do understand the excuses, most of them anyways, but the license one, I dont,the time you spent on RC, I dont understand that, I dont understand the time you spendt on your own tank build, whenyou are so far behind on this project. No I dont understand.

as for yuor completing on time, next week. my rant on you RC thread allowed for that. You could have easily stated that first thing. STAND UP AND SHOUT IT TOTHE WORLD, I WILL FINISH IT BY THEN, I PROMISE. But you didnt. All you did was try to cloud the issue with dates that are WRONG. FACTS, that are WRONG.

And basically, have no excuse for the time you wasted in between your bad times. You know, those days when no one died, the days when you werent sick, the days you had a drivers license, you know the days you had you hands on the keyboard typing jokes about donating money...

How come you got time to type jokes? Dont care that yuo are three months, or one month late or ONE DAY LATE. so you are one day late, is that joke on RC a FUCK YOU BILL, I KNOW I AM LATE, BUT I AM NOT GOING TO WORK ON YOUR PROJECT AND MAYBE FINISH ONE DAY EARLIER???

No it was a fuck you, I will work on this at 11:55 PM on August Fifteenth, and have it ready in five minutes, and you will like it cause you worked so diligently on it???

HERE IS MY EMAIL TO HIM, show me the threat that I will post to every board around... FUCKING LIAR...

Fuck you,

Keep the fucking money, I got the emails from April to support when you said you started working regardless of the contract you submitted which was after you got paid which was still before you produced anything.

I did say that my project was not important and should not come between you and more important things. But your posts on RC I guess are more important then my project, which is why you can keep the money and whatever dignity you associate with it and the work you did.

I would love to have been proved wrong, unfortunately you couldn’t do that and that is all there is to it HUH?

The only thing I am sorry for is not waiting till the fifteenth, but I am positive it would have come and gone with no website to show then either. But that along with your stupid thread on RC about wanting more money and or sympathy for your financial well being rubbed me the wrong way. How dare you put that request, jokingly or not out there, when you stated how appreciative you were when I gave you the money to buy your tank, but apparently not so appreciative to actually work on it with any diligence!

So, the money means less to me then pursuing you for it. But regardless, you and I both know, you have blown me and this project off for less important and for things that people did not pay for… And for that, you and I both know what your name is worth. If people know that, then it aint wrong, it is fact

Good day to you.

Bill

N You dont troll around looking for work, I am sure you got more then you can handle, OBVIOUSLY!!!

YOU FUCKING DREAM !!! See my email above and in your fucking mail box...

TO BE CONTINUED

Bergovoy · Aug 9, 2007

I never said that, but i will post here as this is a more tolerant place to first off VENT, and second off share the experience with those that may or not benefit, either diretly or inderctly from my nighmare..experience with you.

So no matter what you think of me, and what others think of my rants, bottom line is, I tried to be patient with you, I tried to work with your personal issues, I tried to make allowances for you, but each and everyturn, I see you having fun while my shit get left on the back burner.

If you think I should be patient with you, and ANYONE ESLE that wants to jerk me around for 4000% longer then what you said it will take, you are mistaken.

I value my word more then I value what people think about my rants about people like you. You are the one that failed this project and your comitment. You did not do what you said you were going to do.

That is not something that sits with me well if I were in your shoes. I would have been in the back room working on the puter while the rest of the family was eating and drinking at the wake...

My word means more to me then it does to you apparently, and I can take any comments about timing of my posts or the level to which I take this very easily, as I know that this is only something you could have prevented, as I have given you reminder and options and hints, and blatant discussions about my feelings well before this happened on rc

SteveOhh · Aug 10, 2007

Yawn........................

We're tired of hearing about it. Everytime you've typed something in the last 3 days, it's been bitching & whining about Tony & his lack of completing your website.

Can we act like adults here & move on. You & Tony can take up this matter further in private, but spare us any more posting about this crap. Not to mention MikeEe's bandwidth, which he pays for out of his pocket.

Curlsoc · Aug 10, 2007

SteveOhh said:

Sorry Bill, but I have to agree with Steve. I haven't chimed in on this train wreck once yet, but frankly, I'm starting to feel about it like I feel about hearing about Lindsay Lohan and Paris Hilton. Enough already! It's none of our business, and keep it private. I sincerely hope that the two of you can resolve this issue, but please, keep it to private emails and such, and don't post them here. Let's get back to reefing.

RTG · Aug 10, 2007

SteveU

Bergovoy · Aug 10, 2007

curls,

no problem in letting it go, hopefully no one else will ask, enquire or otherwise infer, cause, unlike your pc post, steve seems to lack the understanding that I have been discussing this with him per his messages and comments to me. Seems discussion is a two way street and not the monologue he seems to think it is.

I have written off the money I paid him, although he offered to refund it, I left it up to him as to whether he does or dont, we will see if he is stnd up or thief

And as for mikes bandwidth, I am glad to see steve is so considerate, maybe when he sells somehing on mikes bandwidth he will share the profits as part of the cost of doing business on someone elses bandwidth...

Bebo77 · Aug 10, 2007

jeffersonReef said:

LOL.. yeah i am bringing sexy backSpit water

Bergovoy · Aug 10, 2007

thank you gabe for chaning that ugly avitar out, this is FAR BETTER

Xycron · Aug 12, 2007

you guys talk about bandwidth like this website is on on a huge dedicated server

It could, and probably is hosted on shared hosting for under 15$ a month, i'd guess it could be 10$ or under pretty easy, but that depends on the quality of host, and when on shared hosting you have a set limit, such as 2GB of bandwidth, which is being paid for weather its used or not, the less then half a meg probably used by this thread will add no costs

but ANYWAYS, if your still trieing to get a site made, I might be able to do it for you, we'd have to talk about it, but I have nothing to distract me from it seeing as I'm not back in school yet, and I just quit my job(although I'm still working for the next 2weeks, but low hours) except maybe those delicious bagel bites in the freezer **drools** i might just go take care of those right now though,

Onesaltydawg · Aug 12, 2007

Bebo77 said:

I am drooling over the bite in the avatar...eh eh eh eh

Bergovoy · Aug 16, 2007

Well, Jefferson Reef contacted me today.

From our prior conversation, the question was asked by him as to what he should do, walk away, refund the money, or what.

I told him then, that it was up to him....

And prior to my continuing on this line of thought, I will mention something slightly off this topic, in that I will tell you all, that probably like many of you, I use the internet, this and other forums for basically two things...

Information, and entertainment.

That does not mean that other things cant come from it as well. I have met many people, in person and not yet in person. I like many of the people I have met, and some I dont really have an opinion of and of course the very small minority of people that I do not like...

I accept everyone equally and at face value, and I learn more about them at each encounter just as others learn more about me.

I learned some things about some people that to be honest, surprised me. And although I understand I am opinionated and usually firm in my beliefs, I do not understand how grown/mature people can resort to name calling and attacks of a personal nature to somehow either provoke more of a reaction or to convolute the discussion...

But either way, or for whatever the reason, that discovery reminded me of the nature of the internet, and that is there is an abundance of people out there and the internet just facilitates and accelerates the likelihood of these types of encounters. I am grateful that these lessons did not cost me anything, cause usually my lessons are painfull($$$), that way, I am sure to pay attention in the future..

Anyways, back to Jefferson Reef's phone call.

Tony called me and told me he had continued on working on my website, and offered for me to review it, if I like it great, if not, he would offer me my money back.

I will say, that this surprised me. With all that transpired, with his mis-stating of facts and attempts to malign my claim, along with my posting of this situation in these forums, he still persisted in completing his obligation.

And with those efforts he has created a site that is very impressive looking. Certainly it is not done, as he knows and indicates in a couple locations throughout the site, but it definitely looks sweet.

And as I stated in my message in the forum as well as in my email to him, I would be glad to be wrong if that meant I had recieved what I paid for, i.e. the website.

And with that understanding, I feel it easy to say I am sorry Tony.

I will contact you directly to detail the items I would like to address, i.e completing the aquacontroller stats and presentation of those stats, also the instructions or information on how i update things, like pictures and stuff, and a couple of other things, again, referring to the example websites given before, (carlosreef and dhocks site)

So, hopefully these items can be addressed in the timely manner you showed me this week, and we can see this project to it's completion.

NOTE: as I mentioned above, towards the beginning, I use these forums and the internet for the information and entertainment, obviously, with my recent re-understanding, of the types of people I am likely to find and encounter on the internet, my lack of participation this past week evidences the two reasons I use the internet.

Bill

jeffersonreef is not so fast

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