Reef Supplements and photographs

[watchguy123]

There is so much interest in reef supplements like trace elements eg. manganese, zinc, potassium and iodine, to Aquaforest supplements, Zeo, triton, and Red Sea

Additionally, some people are also using amino acids like l-aspartic acid, or commercial products such as amino power, me polyp extender and others

Nitrates which were always hard to control historically now seem easier with bio-pellets, carbon dosing, siporax and matrix and more. I'm amazed by this change in the hobby, although nobody seems to agree with me, it feels like the bacteria have changed and are better at dealing with nitrates. Well now I'm ranting, my point was that with better control of nitrates, additives or supplements can be added without overwhelming the tank parameters

But my question after all the rambling, are there better colors because of the supplementation. I don't see a lot of sharing of photographs of sps or lps. Or if there are pictures, they are often difficult to see colors because of the extreme blue lighting. So how is one to know if supplements really work. I miss reefers sharing their pictures. I always find it inspirational when someone can show/share success.

 

[ERIC1975]

I just started using Acro Power and Red Sea Reef Energy A and B on a daily basic plus Red Sea A,B,C,D color program for the past month and so far looks promising!
Last year I was using Pohl's stuffs. I thought it seems to work but it's so darn expensive!

 

[Smite]

Trying to get pictures of coral to show true to life is a challenge. I've shared a decent amount of pictures but that's probably about 5% of what I shot. It takes a decent camera with white balance under these heavy blue tanks to get a good picture. That's an added expense and time experimenting with settings. I think so,e people just don't want to deal with it or get frustrated trying. I enjoy it after putting some time in. Really became kind of a sub hobby for me now.

It would be nic to see more tank threads. Same tank, coral and equipment being photographed with similar settings would make for a good reference for "before and afters" for supplement/product, maintenance and equipment changes. I use my thread as a reference from time to time. Sometimes judging color over a period of time can be tricky when it comes to something you stare at daily.

 

[watchguy123]

Realistic pictures are challenging indeed because of the various lighting schemes, photographic ability and photo editing. But that's ok. If we share what we have, we can all try to adjust our eye to the pictures and interpret what we think is there.

There is a reefer back east that has an incredible collection of truly special
Sps. He chooses to photograph them in blues and heavily underexposed so the coral colors are dark and well off. But the colors are spectacular even if not true to life. It's not how I like to take photos but nonetheless I am impressed by the photography so his simple gift of sharing photos motivates me at my photography. I want to learn to take "blue lighting" photographs in addition to my others. I would be thrilled to be able to capture lifelike blue lighting pictures. So far my blue light pictures look unreal. So although I don't credit this reefer with photography accuracy per se, he has nonetheless stimulated/motivated me to try to improve my photo skills. We are never going to share the same photographic equipment or lighting, but if what we do share are beautiful coral photos then we enhance the level of reefing and challenge each other to become better reefers. A beautiful coral under any lighting is beautiful.

I am not advocating over photo editing or extreme lighting. I am advocating sharing gems photographically as well as reef keeping modifications like supplements that you believe are enhancing the beauty of your coral.

Look if I recall correctly, acropower was described as "crack for sps " by a vendor and the first months of threads sounded so spectacular with immediate results of color improvement and polyp extension. Then the hype and fan boys faded. But there are still many advocates of acropower. I tried it it for months but never got a sense of any positive changes and discontinued it. I tried me polyp extender for months and have stopped it because I just didn't see any notable changes. I am about to start Aquaforest reef salt. I have been using l-aspartic acid for months. A friend gave me two bottle of Red Sea power A and B but I haven't tried it yet except for a tiny sampler bottle.

I like the experimentation in the hobby. The move to different ideas and things that haven't been considered before is great. But I also very much like the pictures that demonstrate those improvements. I am advocating for sharing more reef shots and with the best shots you can take whether it be iPhone or dslr. Just make it good ones.

I get excited every time I see a great reef shot. It would be great if we shared more of them in the forum. Pictures lead to questions like what are you feeding, how much, when, what do you do for tank parameters, do you supplement, water changes, lights. On and on. We have a lot to learn from each other

 

[djrice69]

You guys nailed it pictures are worth 1000 words.

 

[mrtian97]

Eric, you use Red sea reef energy A and B daily? wouldn't too much? I am using these products too, but twice a week

 

[Rakie]

I started biggles juice -- I have yet to see anyone who has used it to say anything negative about it. After that, I will probably never buy another snake juice. But I will surely try them if I receive samples or win raffles

 

[watchguy123]

I started biggles juice -- I have yet to see anyone who has used it to say anything negative about it. After that, I will probably never buy another snake juice. But I will surely try them if I receive samples or win raffles

So is that Lugols iodine, Koral color and ??? And are they all brightwell products

 

[Rakie]

So is that Lugols iodine, Koral color and ??? And are they all brightwell products

KoralColor and Lugols are both Brightwell products.

The last product is the semi-controversial one. It was originally Salifert Trace Hard, but they no longer make that. So the choices for it's replacement are Aquaforest Micro E, or KZ Zeospur 2 which is basically Copper dosing. It works by expelling Zooxanthelle from the corals, because in high concentration zooxanthelle are responsible for making corals brown. This lets the super colorful aspects of SPS shine

 

[watchguy123]

KoralColor and Lugols are both Brightwell products.

The last product is the semi-controversial one. It was originally Salifert Trace Hard, but they no longer make that. So the choices for it's replacement are Aquaforest Micro E, or KZ Zeospur 2 which is basically Copper dosing. It works by expelling Zooxanthelle from the corals, because in high concentration zooxanthelle are responsible for making corals brown. This lets the super colorful aspects of SPS shine

I have followed Biggles thread for a while. He is an entertaining guy. I have not paid attention to the doses. Do you know what the formula dosing is on each.

The iodine surprises me, because I thought iodine was bad for coral but iodide is good. A while back I read a post by Randy Farley-Holmes, on iodine vs iodide but I don't remember much more than iodide is preferable.

I have friends that rave about Red Sea A and B but I have not tried them. I have them sitting in my refrigerator. It is difficult/impossible to separate out the snake oil from any of these products it seems. Hard to know what the ingredients are and which if any are contributing to colorization. Even the copper expelling zooxanthellae, is there any science to that or is that just guesswork. I so much like it better when I understand why I am doing something as opposed to buying into it.

 

[Rakie]

I have followed Biggles thread for a while. He is an entertaining guy. I have not paid attention to the doses. Do you know what the formula dosing is on each.

The iodine surprises me, because I thought iodine was bad for coral but iodide is good. A while back I read a post by Randy Farley-Holmes, on iodine vs iodide but I don't remember much more than iodide is preferable.

I have friends that rave about Red Sea A and B but I have not tried them. I have them sitting in my refrigerator. It is difficult/impossible to separate out the snake oil from any of these products it seems. Hard to know what the ingredients are and which if any are contributing to colorization. Even the copper expelling zooxanthellae, is there any science to that or is that just guesswork. I so much like it better when I understand why I am doing something as opposed to buying into it.

KZ ZEOspur2 in description -- "ZEOspur 2 is designed to reduce the amount of zooxanthellae in acropora, anacropora and montipora coral tissue to bring out brilliant coloration. The reduction of zooxanthellae in the outer layers brings out the colors from deeper within the coral."

Basically you know how high levels of copper will kill corals? Well, micro doses of copper will kill off some Zooxanthellae without killing the whole coral. Of course, this is speculation on my part, I'm not sure it actually "kills" the zooxanthellae. Aquaforest Micro E & ZEOspur 2 are the only metal dosing supplements on the market right now (that I know of)

 

[Rakie]

Oh yeah, and about Iodine --- The purpose of the iodine as far as I know, is to detoxify excess oxygen made by the Zooxanthellae. It allows the coral to color up a little more, and help with PE. Iodine additionally helps coral flesh grow back a bit if you have exposed skeleton.


I noticed when my tank is dosed iodine my Favia opens up wanting food, and my zoa's open wider than i'd ever seen (but the Zoa's are doing this less and less now), i've also noticed my SPS are more fully open at night and sending out their feeding sweepers (forgot their name). I've got an SPS dominant tank and I've acquired random LPS and Zoa's -- The Zoa's and LPS are not the focus of this tank, so if they didn't make it I wouldn't shed a tear. Since starting to dose KoralColor & Iodine the flesh on all my LPS has improved dramatically, and they're now more inflated and healthy looking, and tissue loss has stopped dead in it's tracks.


I had TWO zoa's I actually wanted. A gold maul, and blue rhino -- Both of them shrank away into nothing. I wonder if Iodine may have helped.. I am not running Micro E yet (but I will), but after looking at some of the other guys at RC SPS section (Quiverfull, Kevin-e) so I cannot suggest everyone go buy this junk. But if I get the results I'm hoping for I'll be sure to let you all know.

 

[watchguy123]

Oh yeah, and about Iodine --- The purpose of the iodine as far as I know, is to detoxify excess oxygen made by the Zooxanthellae. It allows the coral to color up a little more, and help with PE. Iodine additionally helps coral flesh grow back a bit if you have exposed skeleton.


I noticed when my tank is dosed iodine my Favia opens up wanting food, and my zoa's open wider than i'd ever seen (but the Zoa's are doing this less and less now), i've also noticed my SPS are more fully open at night and sending out their feeding sweepers (forgot their name). I've got an SPS dominant tank and I've acquired random LPS and Zoa's -- The Zoa's and LPS are not the focus of this tank, so if they didn't make it I wouldn't shed a tear. Since starting to dose KoralColor & Iodine the flesh on all my LPS has improved dramatically, and they're now more inflated and healthy looking, and tissue loss has stopped dead in it's tracks.


I had TWO zoa's I actually wanted. A gold maul, and blue rhino -- Both of them shrank away into nothing. I wonder if Iodine may have helped.. I am not running Micro E yet (but I will), but after looking at some of the other guys at RC SPS section (Quiverfull, Kevin-e) so I cannot suggest everyone go buy this junk. But if I get the results I'm hoping for I'll be sure to let you all know.

So what is the dosing regimen for biggles juice

 

[Rakie]

To follow the recommended daily dosing [MENTION=3886]watchguy123[/MENTION] lol.

The dosing isn't messed with at all, exactly what the bottles say to do. It's just the combination that works for him. Additionally, dosing daily worked for him and so many others because they had large established tanks full of acro's they were trying to improve. I have a small tank with Frags -- So I'll be dosing every other day.

For Iodine, the dose is 1 drop per 35g. My tank is 29g, so I dilute 1 drop into some SW and pour in 2/3 - 3/4 of that mixture and toss the rest. It's only been a couple days for me. I see some general improvement in coral tissue and LPS happiness, but it'll take about a moth to definitively say anything.

 

[rayray]

You guys nailed it pictures are worth 1000 words.

I think there are way too many variable to base results off pics

 

[Rakie]

I think there are way too many variable to base results off pics

Including how good the dude with the camera is at using said camera.

The most reliable way is what the reefer notices over time.

 

[watchguy123]

I think there are way too many variable to base results off pics

Of course, but how are you going to observe any other way.

Unless you get to visit other tanks with varying supplement regimens, all you can do is check out pictures. Pictures get manipulated for good and bad reasons and I can certainly attest to that same tank, same camera and same lighting seems to get different results on different days unrelated to supplements. But sharing photos is still the best way to look into someone else's tank even given all the many variables.

 

[M3ace9]

Interesting thoughts. I personally have an old tank. My tank is a corner bowfront with bended regular old glass. When you look into my aquarium it looks pretty normal. I honestly feel its because the visibility is probably super clouded through the glass. I think regular glass has like 70 visibility and when you add the bend it changes things drastically. When viewed top down is where the real colors can be seen and with a camera they can be captured. Its ok though I have a new build finally in the planning stage. Hoping to have it stocked by the beginning of the year.

 

[rayray]

Of course, but how are you going to observe any other way.

Unless you get to visit other tanks with varying supplement regimens, all you can do is check out pictures. Pictures get manipulated for good and bad reasons and I can certainly attest to that same tank, same camera and same lighting seems to get different results on different days unrelated to supplements. But sharing photos is still the best way to look into someone else's tank even given all the many variables.

"But my question after all the rambling, are there better colors because of the supplementation. I don't see a lot of sharing of photographs of sps or lps."

^ isnt this what you were asking? Or specificlly, was the supplement worth my money?

Then why dont you buy a supplement & dose accordingly, while holding all other variables the same, like basic chem, lighting, flow, oxygenation, bioload, etc, in the most scientifcally controlled way, & post all your params, then start and end pics so other reefers can decide if the supplement in question is worth it.

With all due respect, you are coming from the perspective of someone who really wants to believe while I am a skeptic. I feel like most supps are like the GNC store- sure at the top top gymrats it might make a small difference. But for most people it was really their daily sweat.

 

[watchguy123]

I think we are not all that far apart on supplements. Snake oil, unlisted ingredients, it's difficult/impossible to get clarity. But there are lots of new ways of reefing, and products, eg triton, Aquaforest, red sea supplements, biggles juice, etc. I would like to find/utilize a product if it makes a significant difference. Since there are so many reefers already trying these regimens, I would enjoy seeing there results at least as possible.

Whether one is skeptical or hopeful, doesn't really mean either is less questioning. If you don't look, you won't see anything.

I think that is the benefit of forums, the exchange of ideas. You don't have to try every product, you can learn or share from others. Thank you for the encouragement to try these various supplements . But really [MENTION=4203]rayray[/MENTION], soliciting others experience in their tanks makes reefing so much better