"The oceans are acidifying at the fastest rate in 300 million years. How bad could it get?
this is pretty scary and sad news.
this is pretty scary and sad news.
"The Oceans are acidifying at the fastest rate in 300 million years"
- Thread starter oredith
- Start date
No hard coral/rock = no protection for fish. So I'd say yes. The whole reef is at risk. I don't think we needed stats to know one day probably during our lifetime the reefs will be gone to almost nothing. Hawaii has so many tourist smothered in sun block that nothing survives but huge fish and urchins I didn't see a single piece if coral . wait til we humans can harvest something profitable from the amazon. Say bye bye.
primarily the changes fall under the large umbrella term of "global warming", but that's a very broad term, as we all know. i don't believe anything was pointed out as the main culprit.
and the marine ecosystem is a whole system, so while it only directly impacts the calcification of corals and shells, that leads to reduction of the reef, which leads to change in habitat for reef dwelling ecology.
it's all bad things.. >_<
i hope i get a chance to dive the barrier reef before it's all browned out.. >_<
and the marine ecosystem is a whole system, so while it only directly impacts the calcification of corals and shells, that leads to reduction of the reef, which leads to change in habitat for reef dwelling ecology.
it's all bad things.. >_<
i hope i get a chance to dive the barrier reef before it's all browned out.. >_<
I think it's crazy how someone of us try to do our best by bringing our own bags to the market and recycling everything we possible can. And most of the world just tosses everything on the floor and have no idea about helping the environment. I was in Beijing and people just throw trash on the floor without a second thought. People walk out of their apartment and empty their waste baskets over their balconies. The port is ridiculous. The water is literally black. They throw trash in the water like its nothing. Some countries will not change because they don't know they need to
It's incomplete science at best. If it were objective science it would say "the pH of the ocean has dropped from 8.3 to 8.27", because neutral water has a pH of 7.0, the ocean is still alkaline. And 300million years is a blink of the eye in global terms. In a closed system like earth, carbon appears to be moving from forests & underground stores to the ocean, don't you think nature will find a way to use it? In fact plankton & ocean plants are using it, coral that can adapt will do well. Plastic bottle debris in the middle of the ocean is having the same effect, they are degrading & their carbon is being incorporated by living things.
It's politically motivated at best, because there is big $ behind this. It USED to be called global "warming", now it is just "climate change" because not all top scientists agree to the severity of the change, the significance of said change and it's impact on humans is a guess at best. It's very very complicated and these type of layman articles are sensationalistic & overly simplistic.
There have been several events in this planet's life where >99% of species were wiped out. I assure you life won't stop by anything humans do.
It's politically motivated at best, because there is big $ behind this. It USED to be called global "warming", now it is just "climate change" because not all top scientists agree to the severity of the change, the significance of said change and it's impact on humans is a guess at best. It's very very complicated and these type of layman articles are sensationalistic & overly simplistic.
There have been several events in this planet's life where >99% of species were wiped out. I assure you life won't stop by anything humans do.
I heard "global warming" isnt what everyone claims it is saying that its pollution from humans, yes there is alot of pollution but its a small number that its insignificant. Some say that its the earth recovering from the last ice age and the climate is slowly returning to how it originally was.. but thats millions of years
It is CO2 plain and simple. And we're doing it. That's the fact of the matter. The only real political motivation is coming from those who will lose big if we shift over from fossil fuels. Germany, China, Japan and many other countries get the threat global warming poses to us all. They are dumping coal fast. And, Germany is a very conservative government. And, well China is China. The facts are not political. But the main "other theories" are coming from Mobil and the Koch brothers. The oil companies will lose profits if we shift.
Other facts are the Maldives, Indonesia, Marshall Islands, the GBR, Hawaii and our coasts are threatened (Louisiana is sinking/eroding visibly). The scientific study about Hawaii was paid for by the tourism board hardly a "political" group. The governments of the Marshall Islands, Maldives and other island nations are petitioning the UN calling for action so their nations don't disappear. Literally drown. Our military is switching to renewables. Even the Bush administration set up a DoD study group in 2007 to assess the national security threat global warming poses to our country.
Sorry for the rant but we should be passionate about this given what our hobby is.
Other facts are the Maldives, Indonesia, Marshall Islands, the GBR, Hawaii and our coasts are threatened (Louisiana is sinking/eroding visibly). The scientific study about Hawaii was paid for by the tourism board hardly a "political" group. The governments of the Marshall Islands, Maldives and other island nations are petitioning the UN calling for action so their nations don't disappear. Literally drown. Our military is switching to renewables. Even the Bush administration set up a DoD study group in 2007 to assess the national security threat global warming poses to our country.
Sorry for the rant but we should be passionate about this given what our hobby is.
Thanks for a response with substance. Really, i too support reef conservation. But i hate scare tactics from anybody.
Its is not as simple as CO2. There have been periods of higher CO2 levels and life thrived. h2O vapor is a better green house warming gas. There are holes in the theory. Its 1 possible THEORY, like evolution, like the bohr atom model, like thermodynamics. Theories are supported by facts, they are not truth in themselves. The IPCC kicked out some very leading scientists who questioned their use of the theories to support facts to support the scientific method & not the other way around.
Our military has supported alternative fuel use for STRATEGIC ENERGY interests, so that if we get into a prolonged global conflict we still have energy for our machinery. It is misleading to say they did it because they are green.
The only thing constant in nature is CHANGE. I would like future generations to have a nice earth too, but stay scientific and quit with the scare tactics. There are many ways to look at this. It is also an energy issue. Energy has allowed us to power tools, including the pumps & lights of your reef tank. Most other sources like ethanol, solar, wind, thermal do not pack as much of a punch as fossil fuels, environmentalists hate nuclear which is the next best. So if we get scared by them to cut down our energy use & lifestyle, whats left? Do western countries like the US, UK & germany who have enjoyed the advances of high energy & have been polluting the earth for hundreads of years, suddenly tell the rest of the devolping world we were wrong, and they shouldnt advance to our lifestyle because we are more enlightened now? So it is extremely geopolitical. To deny that is as silly as it is to say a theory is fact.
Its is not as simple as CO2. There have been periods of higher CO2 levels and life thrived. h2O vapor is a better green house warming gas. There are holes in the theory. Its 1 possible THEORY, like evolution, like the bohr atom model, like thermodynamics. Theories are supported by facts, they are not truth in themselves. The IPCC kicked out some very leading scientists who questioned their use of the theories to support facts to support the scientific method & not the other way around.
Our military has supported alternative fuel use for STRATEGIC ENERGY interests, so that if we get into a prolonged global conflict we still have energy for our machinery. It is misleading to say they did it because they are green.
The only thing constant in nature is CHANGE. I would like future generations to have a nice earth too, but stay scientific and quit with the scare tactics. There are many ways to look at this. It is also an energy issue. Energy has allowed us to power tools, including the pumps & lights of your reef tank. Most other sources like ethanol, solar, wind, thermal do not pack as much of a punch as fossil fuels, environmentalists hate nuclear which is the next best. So if we get scared by them to cut down our energy use & lifestyle, whats left? Do western countries like the US, UK & germany who have enjoyed the advances of high energy & have been polluting the earth for hundreads of years, suddenly tell the rest of the devolping world we were wrong, and they shouldnt advance to our lifestyle because we are more enlightened now? So it is extremely geopolitical. To deny that is as silly as it is to say a theory is fact.
So you are saying no matter how much carbon we burn or fossil fuel we dump, it makes no difference? You're saying this because it's a closed system?
Don't know about you but if I cause a bunch of fish to die in my tank it will pollute the water to the point when many other things will die. Yea in time it will balance out and life will go on but things don't have to happen that way.
Don't know about you but if I cause a bunch of fish to die in my tank it will pollute the water to the point when many other things will die. Yea in time it will balance out and life will go on but things don't have to happen that way.
Your tank is very small & the changes very rapid compared to the entire volume & evolution of the earth. But if your tank were to follow the model in the OPs link, your tank pH would be 8.07 & probably most fish & coral would be ok.
Look i recycle, save water, i have 22 fruit trees & grow veggies, worm compost too. I also majored in biochemistry & did genetic work in academia & industry. Just like with reefing, the more i know, the more i realize i dont know, & i like it to be kept factual. I just wish mainstream media would quit with the anecdotes & mob mentality.
Look i recycle, save water, i have 22 fruit trees & grow veggies, worm compost too. I also majored in biochemistry & did genetic work in academia & industry. Just like with reefing, the more i know, the more i realize i dont know, & i like it to be kept factual. I just wish mainstream media would quit with the anecdotes & mob mentality.
The evidence, what we can see, feel and measure, is that our climate is changing dramatically, faster than at any other time in our planet's history. The fact is that we are the source of this change. It is not a theory. Not speculation. Computer models developed years ago have in fact been conservative and underestimated the impact of our pollution. The costs associated with doing nothing are far greater than moving towards a sustainable economy. Just ask the insurance industry. Ask the cities like NYC or Miami or parts of NC where historic beaches are being washed away. The facts are that the oceans are rising and becoming extremely acidic because of the oceans have absorbed CO2. Our way of life is threatened. And we can solve it, relatively easily and continue to live better than ever. If we say it's a theory, ignore the scientific community's assessment (97-98% consensus) including some of our greatest scientists from NASA our way of life is threatened. Solar panels were invented in America. We still have one of the most powerful, innovative and resilient economies in the world. Yet we are being beaten by all kinds of countries. Why? Because of misinformation and a really good, well financed PR campaign. Wasn't always that way. Richard Nixon created the EPA. The world phased out CFC's because of the ozone layer. I really don't get why this is somehow "political" or why we as reefers can't see it. We get the chemistry/the technology for our little mini reefs. There is science behind reef keeping. I trust the scientific community when it reaches a consensus like on global warming. Why? Because it is verifiable. Independently verifiable and frankly more and more obvious. I was in New Orleans helping rebuild that great city with Habitat for Humanity. I want to preserve amazing places like Hawaii, New Orleans, GBR and if switching out my light bulbs or paying more for a Tesla then so be it. It's worth it.
Never meant anything towards you, I hope it didn't come out that way.
I don't think many people understand the impact humans make on this earth. I do believe that there are things we can do to keep his earth as healthy as possible and we are nowhere near where we could be. Humans consume and are very wasteful. I agree with you about media blowing it up the way they do.
I don't think many people understand the impact humans make on this earth. I do believe that there are things we can do to keep his earth as healthy as possible and we are nowhere near where we could be. Humans consume and are very wasteful. I agree with you about media blowing it up the way they do.
Recorded temperatures have only been kept for a few hundread years, everything earlier has been extrapolated by very smart people. There's no saving hawaii, its disappearing eventually if you believe geologists. Its hard to calculate man's long term impact because we havent been around that long. I like Teslas too 
for commuting despite the short range & possibility of battery fire :target:
for commuting despite the short range & possibility of battery fire :target:
We're not supposed to do that? *looks around sheepishly**picks trash up off of floor*
Seriously though, this doom and gloom stuff just makes me feel utterly helpless because developing countries just DGAF. And Japan over fishing, and China shark finning and and and....
This is why I don't watch the news and live in the little world inside my head where eveything's oooo kkkkkk.
Seriously though, this doom and gloom stuff just makes me feel utterly helpless because developing countries just DGAF. And Japan over fishing, and China shark finning and and and....
This is why I don't watch the news and live in the little world inside my head where eveything's oooo kkkkkk.
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