The return of the reef / Gulf Coast live rock question

[rusted180]

Hey Ya'll

It's good to back!
Been on and off the hobby for the last 17 years..

Had the following in the past:
1. 80 gallon sps and lps mixed
2. 40 gallon sps and lps mixed.
3. 25 gallon lps
3. 10 gallon lps

Left the hobby about 4years ago. Now I'm back!
Circumstances has allowed me to return to the hobby. Plan on staying this time. Over the years, it's always a family emergency or faraway move that made me quit here and there.

Just wanna say hello to all the reefers!

Anywho, plan to get the rock from the following:
https://www.liverocknreef.com/catal...orida-cherry-primo-picked-decorator-7920.html
I saw some videos about it and seems great but I'm just concerned about pests that will arrive on these rocks.. just wanna know everyone's thoughts on these rocks.
I never had dry rock in the past. Historically, I always had Walter Smith rocks for my tanks.. dealt with the usual pests but loved all the life it came with! Except the gorilla crab I had to squish since it refused to come out..I also hated the flat worms but surprisingly my clown ate them which worked itself out.

i plan to take it slow as usual and want to enjoy the life I'll discover on these rocks.. but is it really worth it? ?? What type of pests and hitchhikers have been discovered? Just wanna know if anyone here has any short/long term experience with these.

should I just stay with dry rock? Never tried those yet.

thanks in advance!

 

[jessesoto33]

Welcome back


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[joseserrano]

Per what you mentioned above. Just do dry rock and add bacteria to it. Even “cure”it yourself if you like.

 

[Gedxin]

Used dry rock for my first time ever last year. Sooo many problems I'm still dealing with 12 months later. Cyano, dinos, RTN, STN, everything.

Started a new tank in May this year with live rock from KP aquatics. Already growing SPS and acros. Yeah I've got a mantis shrimp I'll eventually need to deal with, but small price to pay for an instant reef.

 

[drexel]

There are probably more pests on frag plugs and frags than on live rock these days. I would just get a few pieces of real live rock and add some dry rock and let them cure/cook together for a few months. While you're seeding the dry rock, you can work on getting rid of any pests that may have come with the live rock. I bought about 10lbs of Solomon Island rock from Unique and that stuff is great. No real pests came on the rock except for some green palythoas, which I safely dealt with. I just moved the pieces to my main display that I'm rebooting and noticed that one of the rocks has xmas tree worms on it and they are doing great. I'm probably going to pick up another 10lbs or so of the Australian rock this week, then I'll use a few dry pieces to fill in the scape and be done with it.
Whatever you do, don't jump on the whole NSA aquascape bandwagon, it's really not good for the fish and kinda seems pointless to me. The whole point of rock is providing a safe haven for bacteria, hiding places for fish and something for your corals grow on/over. If our goal is to grow colony sized pieces, then why would spend all of that effort creating something that's just going to be covered up and it doesn't provide a good place for fish to feel safe and hide?
What most LFS should be doing is actually curing dry rock with some quality live rock, but I guess it's too much effort on their part or takes up too much room? I've seen "live rock" at a few local stores, but it's nothing more than dry rock in saltwater with maybe some bottled bacteria, which doesn't amount to "live" rock at all.
Something else we should be doing locally is banking live rock or some rubble rock and exchanging with other local hobbyist. This keeps the diversity pool up and is a good way of paying it forward to other hobbyist and establishing new tanks.
So for my short answer, don't worry about pests on real live rock, they are easy to deal with if you do it right. Just don't drop the pieces in an active tank, kinda like you shouldn't just drop frags in your tank without dipping them. You can keep the live rock in bins or buckets and as long as it doesn't get too cold, all the good stuff will survive.
Also, dinos were never really a big deal before dry rock, sure there were some cases here and there, but not like today. Let the rock cook and don't be afraid of "elevated" nutrient levels. Don't overthink the whole process, it's really not that complicated.
Happy reefing!

 

[JojosReef]

I've spent a substantial amount of time on reef forums researching hitchhikers. First tank was CaribSea "LifeRock", which is nothing but dry rock with painted spores that do nothing (in my case). 6 months later, break open a piece and it's chalky white and solid inside. Not a great safe haven for bacteria.

Second tank is 100% gulf live rock and gulf sand from Tampa Bay Saltwater. I put everything directly into the tank, but did a course sand sift to get any bristle worms out. I recommend full gulf rock 100% if you can afford it.

Issues I've had so far with the gulf rocks:
1. Ulva, which is manageable and may have come in on a frag or snail.
2. Bubble algae, which is manageable and may have come in on a frag or snail (emeralds are whittling away at it)
3. Worms:
a) I found a flatworm that I removed, and haven't found any others;
b) eunice worms (think "bobbit worms, but less horrific--yes, creepy but mostly detritivores and not ambush predators);
c) spaghetti worms, lancelets (not really worms) and other non-emergency worms--not really an issue; I like them; but some people don't.
4. gorilla crabs--removed some in the beginning but have one lingering under the rocks;
5. isopods--I found one isopod that could have been a spheromatid or the (rightfully) feared cirolanid. I think it was the former based on eye pattern; the latter you do not want, and I have heard accounts of them coming in on gulf rocks before;
e) coraline, beautful, lovely coraline--not really an issue, except that it grows so quickly in this tank, including on the glass; I also have fans, sponges, tunicates, cup corals... all amazing additions.

Issues I've had with dry rocks:
1. GHA. Massive amounts of GHA. I have added gulf rocks into the tank with dry rocks, and the GHA grows almost exclusively on the dry rocks.
2. Dinos. Fortunately, so far been ostreopsis and/or prorocentrum and only a few amphidinium--thus, running UV 24/7 for ~1wk or 2 and working on nutrients has helped.
3. Diatoms. Not a real issue, but worth noting that my gulf rock tank completely skipped this step.
4. Aiptasia. Obviously came in on frags, but worth noting that I'm having a harder time keeping these guys out than in my other tank, and I don't know why. Both tanks have had a few aiptasia, but I exterminate them quickly with boiling RODI water, and (knock on wood), they are out of my gulf rock tank, but keep popping up in my dry rock/gulf rock-added tank.

Overall, I would take the pests from the gulf rock over the extreme algae issues and time to maturity of the dry rock. Even mixing them, I don't think it's worth it--the dry rock is just open real estate for nuisance algae.

If I make another tank, it will be 100% gulf rock/sand, but I will do a dipping step in the beginning with either hypersalinity or hyposalinity water (still researching which is the best for preserving bacterial diversity and beneficial hitchhikers), then pick out the worms I want to keep. And I'll do a fine sift of the sand.

Hope my perspective helps!

 

[JojosReef]

P.s. the other thing about live gulf rock, if you get the "premium" rock, you might not even want to overload your tank with coral, since the rock itself is so pretty. I've got a few bare spots that I plan on keeping bare (if I can keep the palys from spreading)!

 

[happaman]

I used real reef rock, Walt Smith I think, about 20 years ago and got gorilla crabs and a huge eunice worm. All the other hitchhikers I don't consider pests like bristle worms, spaghetti worms and different macros too. The gorilla crabs literally ate a huge leather and the eunice worm ate different tank "mates" but I eventually caught them all and stuck them in the sump. But, that said I'd take it over seeded dry rock any day. Much more interesting life/color and tank last 10+ years with no issues to speak of. Started 3 tanks w/dryrock, dipped and inspected all frags, and still had massive cyano, dinos, flat worms, bryopsis and neomeris (grew everywhere) so ime no guarantee dryrock is better. But, $$$ and environmental impact are not +'s.

 

[Jimbo327]

I'm using dead bleached real rock. I'm guessing it'll take awhile to get it mature and "cured". But I think just adding a bottle of bacteria should be good to go.

 

[rusted180]

There are probably more pests on frag plugs and frags than on live rock these days. I would just get a few pieces of real live rock and add some dry rock and let them cure/cook together for a few months. While you're seeding the dry rock, you can work on getting rid of any pests that may have come with the live rock. I bought about 10lbs of Solomon Island rock from Unique and that stuff is great. No real pests came on the rock except for some green palythoas, which I safely dealt with. I just moved the pieces to my main display that I'm rebooting and noticed that one of the rocks has xmas tree worms on it and they are doing great. I'm probably going to pick up another 10lbs or so of the Australian rock this week, then I'll use a few dry pieces to fill in the scape and be done with it.
Whatever you do, don't jump on the whole NSA aquascape bandwagon, it's really not good for the fish and kinda seems pointless to me. The whole point of rock is providing a safe haven for bacteria, hiding places for fish and something for your corals grow on/over. If our goal is to grow colony sized pieces, then why would spend all of that effort creating something that's just going to be covered up and it doesn't provide a good place for fish to feel safe and hide?
What most LFS should be doing is actually curing dry rock with some quality live rock, but I guess it's too much effort on their part or takes up too much room? I've seen "live rock" at a few local stores, but it's nothing more than dry rock in saltwater with maybe some bottled bacteria, which doesn't amount to "live" rock at all.
Something else we should be doing locally is banking live rock or some rubble rock and exchanging with other local hobbyist. This keeps the diversity pool up and is a good way of paying it forward to other hobbyist and establishing new tanks.
So for my short answer, don't worry about pests on real live rock, they are easy to deal with if you do it right. Just don't drop the pieces in an active tank, kinda like you shouldn't just drop frags in your tank without dipping them. You can keep the live rock in bins or buckets and as long as it doesn't get too cold, all the good stuff will survive.
Also, dinos were never really a big deal before dry rock, sure there were some cases here and there, but not like today. Let the rock cook and don't be afraid of "elevated" nutrient levels. Don't overthink the whole process, it's really not that complicated.
Happy reefing!

Wow! Thank you so much for all that info! I am def greatful for not just you but anyone who chimed in on my thread..

Tbh.. I was gonna do nsa aquascaping.. but you def put a good argument against it..
Wow. Lots to think about. But I'm glad to hear good things about the Gulf rock. I've always had live rock and seeing that most ppl use dry rock made me curious esp how cool nsa aquascaping looks.. but I do see you mean about missing the point in having rock in our tanks.

I may just do like half and half with both dry and live.

I also heard Walt smith is selling rocks again..that true? I thought they weren't allowing him to import anymore?

Thanks fellas . You guys are awesome!

 

[rusted180]

I've spent a substantial amount of time on reef forums researching hitchhikers. First tank was CaribSea "LifeRock", which is nothing but dry rock with painted spores that do nothing (in my case). 6 months later, break open a piece and it's chalky white and solid inside. Not a great safe haven for bacteria.

Second tank is 100% gulf live rock and gulf sand from Tampa Bay Saltwater. I put everything directly into the tank, but did a course sand sift to get any bristle worms out. I recommend full gulf rock 100% if you can afford it.

Issues I've had so far with the gulf rocks:
1. Ulva, which is manageable and may have come in on a frag or snail.
2. Bubble algae, which is manageable and may have come in on a frag or snail (emeralds are whittling away at it)
3. Worms:
a) I found a flatworm that I removed, and haven't found any others;
b) eunice worms (think "bobbit worms, but less horrific--yes, creepy but mostly detritivores and not ambush predators);
c) spaghetti worms, lancelets (not really worms) and other non-emergency worms--not really an issue; I like them; but some people don't.
4. gorilla crabs--removed some in the beginning but have one lingering under the rocks;
5. isopods--I found one isopod that could have been a spheromatid or the (rightfully) feared cirolanid. I think it was the former based on eye pattern; the latter you do not want, and I have heard accounts of them coming in on gulf rocks before;
e) coraline, beautful, lovely coraline--not really an issue, except that it grows so quickly in this tank, including on the glass; I also have fans, sponges, tunicates, cup corals... all amazing additions.

Issues I've had with dry rocks:
1. GHA. Massive amounts of GHA. I have added gulf rocks into the tank with dry rocks, and the GHA grows almost exclusively on the dry rocks.
2. Dinos. Fortunately, so far been ostreopsis and/or prorocentrum and only a few amphidinium--thus, running UV 24/7 for ~1wk or 2 and working on nutrients has helped.
3. Diatoms. Not a real issue, but worth noting that my gulf rock tank completely skipped this step.
4. Aiptasia. Obviously came in on frags, but worth noting that I'm having a harder time keeping these guys out than in my other tank, and I don't know why. Both tanks have had a few aiptasia, but I exterminate them quickly with boiling RODI water, and (knock on wood), they are out of my gulf rock tank, but keep popping up in my dry rock/gulf rock-added tank.

Overall, I would take the pests from the gulf rock over the extreme algae issues and time to maturity of the dry rock. Even mixing them, I don't think it's worth it--the dry rock is just open real estate for nuisance algae.

If I make another tank, it will be 100% gulf rock/sand, but I will do a dipping step in the beginning with either hypersalinity or hyposalinity water (still researching which is the best for preserving bacterial diversity and beneficial hitchhikers), then pick out the worms I want to keep. And I'll do a fine sift of the sand.

Hope my perspective helps!

Your feedback is def helpful!!
Wow.. dang it. You do make a good point about how a mixed rock setup will have some problems. It is interesting to note how ur dry rocks had algae issues but the Gulf rock was okay.. what's even more crazy is how u have a worse case of aptasia in the hybrid vs ur 100 % Gulf tank..

Dang.. kinda want best of both worlds. Some nsa aquascape and some natural Gulf rock. But now I'm thinking if I should just go 100 percent Gulf rock.
The only thing I hated about live rock I bought over the years from Walt smith is how most of the rocks were boulders. Kinda hard to aquascape.. I guess I could break a part the Gulf rock.. but not sure if that'll be a good thing..

 

[Gedxin]

I started my new tank with live rock and have progressively added dry rock to help the scape and provide more coral areas. It's about 50/50 dry/live now. I'll try and let you know how the algae battle goes as it continues to mature.

 

[laverda]

I love true live rock and will never set up a tank with dry rock. Part of the fun is seeing what pops up on the rock' even the pests are interesting. I hope to add some fresh live rock to my tank at some point just to increase bio diversity.
I have several hundred pounds of extra live rock available in Anaheim at $4 a pound for some really nice pieces. Rubble is $1. a pound. It is pest free, if your interested.

 

[rusted180]

I started my new tank with live rock and have progressively added dry rock to help the scape and provide more coral areas. It's about 50/50 dry/live now. I'll try and let you know how the algae battle goes as it continues to mature.

Sounds good! this will be useful info for all of us!

 

[dpoltsdsu]

I used that exact live rock in my reef and I've been really happy with it. Caught a couple crabs but it wasn't hard. Tank has been super stable and the corals grow fantastic

 

[JojosReef]

That might be the ticket. I started my Evo with dry rock and then added gulf rock when I already had GHA covering everything, including sand and black acrylic back wall.

Notably, addition of the gulf rock, slight change in feeding and a bit of extra CUC caused the GHA to recede completely from the back wall, sand and one half of the dry rock (the other side of the tank seems to be a GHA stonghold). I attribute most of this to the live rock, but I can't explain why, since I've added CUC and changed feeding on other occasions.

Will be good to hear if the added dry rock goes nuisance algae route or grows over with coraline!