To start over or not? I need advice guys...

[chrono]

I've been thinking hard about starting over with my tank. It's been a year and a half and it's just not where it should be.

I bought it as a running unit and decided to go with it instead of just ditching the rock and sand giving it a good scrub and going with new (inpatient and new). Anyways, the tank will go good for awhile and have growth then all of a sudden things will start dying (mostly SPS and some quickly), I'll do some major water changes for a couple weeks and things go back to good and even have corals that where on the edge of death come back, some even better looking. so I'll go back to weekly 15-20% water changes and a few months later things start going south again. my readings are always within spec besides nitrates, which i can't get down and always sits around 50ppm. I've notice my phosphates spike when things start going south.

not sure if it's something I'm doing wrong or if i inherited somebody else's problem. I've been useing phosguard and carbon in a bag that the return flows onto. It seems to help but is just a bandaid. am i beating a dead horse? If so, how do i reset my tank without killing the coral and fish i have now? I'm a busy guy so i can't make frequent/large water changes a habbit. Plus i don't want that salt and water bill.

Sometimes i think about paying one of you gurus on here to come over and see what I'm working with and giving me advice on what might get my tank on track and what habbits i should stop or start doing.

Any info you need to know about my tank or my reef keeping habbits just ask.
I don't want to give up yet since I finally have a salt tank after 20 years of having successful fresh tanks but always wishing i had a salt one, but it gets depressing losing coral.

Tank is a 60g cube with a 3" sand bed. 30 gallon sump that starts with a 7" filter sock that i put the phosguard and carbon in and a c7 skimmer in the first chamber, then it goes into second chamber that has a deep 7" sand bed and some rubble with a tiny ball of cheato that hasn't grown and a couple Kenya trees, the third chamber just has a no name return pump, and the sump is lit up on a reverse light cycle with a orbit marine light. Lighting is a maxspect razor 16k and it has a rw-8 powerhead and a no name that came with it. Other hardware is a reefkeeper with temp probe, ph, and salinity. And a smart ATO.

Any advice would be appreciated. I've been researching and trying to get a handle on it, but it's time to ask for help.

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[NVTE]

Gary,
First of all I recommend you to check your source of water (TDS) and metal (crust magnet, coin), and source of PO4 (feed tank frozen food), stray voltage, and calibrate refractometer. You can try to run GFO and Poly filter.

you can also try to replace old sand with new dry sand to see if the old sand leaking out stuffs.

give us picture and more detailed of the tank like fish stock, feeding, dosing. the more the better.

good luck

 

[chrono]

My tds meter on my ro/di reads zero. But i do suspect the tds meter is bad. I bought the unit used but supposedly new filters in it, but I've made alot of water with it and it still reads zero and i live in Anaheim and know the water is bad. I do feed frozen every other day 1 cube and i let it thaw and drain it. I only feed a pinch of pellets at night and actually think i underfeed for fear of overfeeding. I have a ground wire on the tank. I have a refractometer also and bought calibration fluid and even double checked it with my mother in-laws. Always at 1.25

Problem is i have very limited space for anything. The sump takes up the whole stand and i have nowhere around the tank to put anything because of location. I had to run the ato through the wall and put the res in a cupboard on the other side.

I don't have any recent pics of the tank and i dropped my phone yesterday and broke the camera.

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[chrono]

There are doorways on both sides of the tank that hampers me on equipment. But that's why i bought this tank, because it was the biggest tank i could get that would fit in this dead space in my living room. So i have to work with what i got. If i owned the house i would punch another hole in the other wall and use the closet.

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[chrono]

I've debated on getting rid of the sock since sometimes i only change it twice a week. Or maybe getting rid of the deep sand bed and rubble out of the second chamber so i can use it for something else. Also wondering if getting a better clean up crew for the tank will help since the sand rarely gets disturbed except where the wrasse beds down at. But then i have a problem with something eating or killing off my clean up crews. Also wonder if my water is cycling to slow... but yet i dont want to change something and make it worse.

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[lowbudget]

how much livestock you have in the tank? was your sand new or old? how long the tank been up? looks like you have good coraline. what are you ca alk and mg. what is your po4. do you have in magnets in the tank if so how old are they. might want to lower the led a bit we need to know parameters

 

[OGFrenchHorn]

how much livestock you have in the tank? was your sand new or old? how long the tank been up? looks like you have good coraline. what are you ca alk and mg. what is your po4. do you have in magnets in the tank if so how old are they. might want to lower the led a bit we need to know parameters

This. also check for stray voltage. Check the magnets on the power heads

 

[Fly5150]

If you used old rocks and sand, they may be leaching po4 and no3. How's your flow? Any detritus settling in the tank? You could also use bio pellets or a hob refugium to help with nutrients.


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[Ausndani7]

Maybe you should just buy a new home and I can help you since I am an agent and work and live here in Anaheim Hills . I think its bad to take over a tank and reuse the old sand because of the Nitrate build up and other potential pests/issues. I guess it would really depend on what corals your keeping though because some corals like the nitrates. I would bet your TDS meter is broken because I have to change out my RODI filter like 1x month because the water quality is that bad. Hope your able to get to bottom of it and wish I could offer more help but I am not a guru yet still learning myself.

 

[Nick Shades]

I see no nutrient export in that sump besides the protein skimmer.

I am still very green around the ears where it comes to my knowledge base, but I think you need to stick some macro algae, xenias, or just about anything that will suck up your dirty water down there in that refugium. Live rock is wonderful, but you need to get something in there that will suck up what you don't want, first.

 

[reefes pieces]

He has macro but it ain't growing. Are you adding/dosing anything in the tank? What salt are u using? Do u make ur own?

 

[lowbudget]

He has macro but it ain't growing. Are you adding/dosing anything in the tank? What salt are u using? Do u make ur own?

but you need light to grow macro

 

[reefes pieces]

Looks like you have more than street fighter skills. He has an orbit marine light in the fuge but by the pic it looks like it isn't mounted right over the fuge and prob not the best spectrum.

but you need light to grow macro

 

[Playa-1]

I would start at the source water. Verify TDS reading and make sure that Carbon filters and DI are working properly. If you topping off and doing water changes with poor water quality then that can cause all kinds of problems. If your Carbon filters are not up to the task, then you may not be pulling out all the Chloramine, Chlorine and ammonia out of the source water. Test the source water for TDS, nitrates, phosphates and total chlorine after the final stage. The Chemical disinfectants will not show up on the TDS meter.

 

[NVTE]

I've debated on getting rid of the sock since sometimes i only change it twice a week. Or maybe getting rid of the deep sand bed and rubble out of the second chamber so i can use it for something else. Also wondering if getting a better clean up crew for the tank will help since the sand rarely gets disturbed except where the wrasse beds down at. But then i have a problem with something eating or killing off my clean up crews. Also wonder if my water is cycling to slow... but yet i dont want to change something and make it worse.

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you can use sock occationally to polish the water, let the skimmer takes out the stuffs.
it is good idea to start vacumn out the sand in the second chamber. then slowly vacumn the main tank (small section at the time).Add GFO reactor.
clean up crew can be eaten by Wrasse. if you have slow cycle you will see little ammonia present in the water. If not then it is not a case. You can add live bacteria to boost (like Bacter 7 or Fritz 9 or Dr tim one and only) and even carbon dosing like Volka dosing to bring down the Nitrate.
do you have par meter to check your light? Look like your hang it high, what is your light power percentage? your corals might not get enough light.

 

[Smite]

If major frequent water changes bring the tank back to health when it goes south I'd think your water source is probably okay.

I'd try removing the sand over a few water changes. Monitor your nitrates and see if they start to fall.

 

[Smite]

A triton test is cheaper than a restart. It'll show you things you can't test for yourself. Strange metals ect.

 

[watchguy123]

I am so sorry that you are having problems but I really love threads like this because they involve basic reef keeping skills, intuition, detective work and then our own biases of what's most important. There are so many great insights already.

I like what [MENTION=7067]Smite[/MENTION] just posted, if your massive water changes temporarily cure the problem it seems that your fresh saltwater and ro/di water must be good. Although if you think your tds meter is bad it simply must be replaced. Plus your tds meter will tell you how effective your filters are at removing tds, the efficiency of your ro filters/membrane and prolong your di filters. You can also check the effectiveness of your carbon and chloramine filters by running a chlorine test on your waste water.

Triton tests will certainly tell you information about many elements that you simply can't test for. It can really be helpful as well. Although it won't tell you about tds and I'm not sure if it provides chlorine info--don't remember.

You have really high nitrates (50ppm) but I don't think you shared your phosphate level. Nitrates generally originate from food or decaying dead fish. And there can be repositories like a sand bed. Tiger or queen conches are great critters for sand beds because they reportedly digest detritus and leave sand critters alone (sand critters are generally good critters for nutrient breakdown). There are lots of ways to reduce nitrates, e.g. water changes, protein skimmer, algae scrubbers, refugiums with chaeto, carbon dosing and siporax like products. I really like siporax, it's passive, easy and as long as you keep it from getting gunked up and are patient to get going, it seems pretty good.

Phosphates can be reduced via water changes, skimmer and most effectively with gfo in a reactor (not passively in a bag). Rock work can be a repository for phosphates and the only way to deal with it is gfo long term till it's all leached out and removed. Really can't get around regularly testing for nitrates and phosphates. Oh and if your flow is inadequate then you may need to just flush your rock of detritus with a turkey baster.

Carbon in a reactor or bag help reduce dissolved inorganic compounds and I think even dissolved organic compounds. I'm pretty sure about the former and not so sure about latter

I also don't think you mentioned your alk and CA levels and how you maintain them. It's one of those basic things, if they are not stable and in the correct range, then hard to keep sps. It doesn't really matter whether you maintain it with a doser or calcium reactor, you almost always need one or the other to succeed. Personally, I think alk stability is the most important of all things because if you are capable of that then most everything else is easier.

It is strange that your chaeto doesn't grow in your refugium and you don't appear to have an algae outbreak in your display. Usually both grow like crazy with high nutrients. So I'd test your nitrate (salifert) and phosphates (Hanna checker ulr). Check alkalinity via Hanna checker. Replace tds meter. Test for chlorine on waste water ro/di. Run a triton test. Once you get that info then determine need for siporax, get calcium reactor or doser, determine need for gfo, determine need for new ro/di filters. Oh you can always throw in a poly filter, they purportedly remove heavy metals and all sorts of bad things--the only problem is that I have never understood how they really do that and if they really work. But I have never heard of a poly filter creating a problem so maybe no downside except about $8. That about all the obvious stuff I can think of. Well there is temperature stability, adequate flow, correct light intensity, oh and bad magnets mess everything up. Good luck

 

[Nick Shades]

You can also try a couple rounds of back to back use of Purigen and Boyd Chemi-pure blue.

I personally do not feel chemi-pure blue is ever necessary in ideal systems, but it and Purigen have fantastic properties at clearing up bad water, and removing unwanted compounds very quickly.

The great thing about purigen is that it is reusable. Buy 2 packages of it, and a week at a time put one in, then the other while cleaning the first, and replace again the following week.

Purigen works by using nylon static electricity and grabs everything free floating that should not be there, similar to filter floss or filter sock, and will start to grab most unwanted detritus. Vacuum that sand and shake it up a quadrant at a time.

I personally do not enjoy working with used systems of any kind, specifically because you don't always know what is going on in it.

Can you contact the person you purchased all this from? Can you ask them of their experience? What made them decide to sell? if it is a similar story, you can start to ask what sort of treatments they did. There might even be something IN the sand bed that they never knew about, and you might discover while you clean it.

At the same time, I would probably go piece by piece and replace the live rock one piece and one week at a time.

 

[Playa-1]

There's a good chance that flow, overfeeding, lighting and/or the deep sand bed are your issues, But it sounds like you have some homework to do before jumping to conclusions. This would be a great time to post water test results for everything that you test for.