Why are so many LFS closing? Is the hobby shrinking?

[MitchW]

Just curious but many LFS have closed in the past year or so and the stores who are open say their business is very slow. Also not many new openings unless I missed it.

Recent closures:
Jim's Exotic Fish (El Segundo)
Pacific Reef (Torrance)
Neptunes Reef (Torrance)
Medusa (west LA)
Atlantis (Santa Barbara)

Is it that store rents have increased too much to stay in business? Is it all the online shopping? Too many tank tear downs? Fewer and fewer hobbyists? The housing crash? A little of all of this?

Its evident though.

All the more reason to shop local and help out the stores I suppose.

 

[F-Dawg]

"The Internet"

 

[MitchW]

Yeah but internet shopping carts have been around for 20 years now - these are recent closures.

 

[805reef]

yes...

 

[Confuse]

Just a random observation....If any of you have ordered from Marine Depot recently under the new free shipping, no minimum mantra, you'll notice that local shipping is significantly slower than before due to the use of more economic methods of shipping. I now wait 3-4 days for a package that's shipped from Garden Grove to arrive. I think that this is good news for local stores because MD is no longer the fastest way to get goods by consumers. Now, local stores have faster access to dry goods from wholesalers they can visit at any time during the week. So this may help local stores become more appealing in purchasing dry goods locally now that you may be able to get a hold of dry goods faster than having it shipped.

 

[Yoshi14]

And there are a lot of ppl who sale from hone that can give much better prices than any shop

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[watchguy123]

I don't really know the business of LFS. I presume that competition is incredibly intense for both dry goods and equipment from online vendors with slim margins. Brick and mortar have significant labor and rent costs. In terms of live critters, often more exotic critters are available online or even the guarantee for a fish can be better online sometimes. Nothing though replaces seeing what you are purchasing in person. I buy both online and at my LFS's. they each have their advantages as well as disadvantages. I think it is tough to run any type of mom and pop business. I hope they stay in business though. Nothing like enjoying a visit to a LFS to enjoy all the sights. Plus there are some incredibly knowledgable, friendly LFS owners out there that are an asset to the hobby

 

[gumbii]

hype...

 

[Tommy Ngo]

Just a random observation....If any of you have ordered from Marine Depot recently under the new free shipping, no minimum mantra, you'll notice that local shipping is significantly slower than before due to the use of more economic methods of shipping. I now wait 3-4 days for a package that's shipped from Garden Grove to arrive. I think that this is good news for local stores because MD is no longer the fastest way to get goods by consumers. Now, local stores have faster access to dry goods from wholesalers they can visit at any time during the week. So this may help local stores become more appealing in purchasing dry goods locally now that you may be able to get a hold of dry goods faster than having it shipped.

MD no longer ship out of Garden Grove anymore. All shipping are done at they distribution center which are out of state that is why it take long now if you live in California.


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[Confuse]

MD no longer ship out of Garden Grove anymore. All shipping are done at they distribution center which are out of state that is why it take long now if you live in California.


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The packages I have received in the last two weeks have a return address to Garden Grove. So unless they ship from Nevada to Garden Grove and then to my house, I don't quite how what they're doing. The last two packages, according to USPS, my packages were sitting in Compton, CA for two days....

 

[sbandcb]

MD no longer ship out of Garden Grove anymore. All shipping are done at they distribution center which are out of state that is why it take long now if you live in California.


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In a recent thread they explained they were still shipping from the west coast. It says the same thing on their website. The slower shipping is because they use the most economic method possible and you need to choose expedited shipping to get the quick delivery we had before. Am I misreading something?

 

[lowbudget]

WWW, connivence, cheaper, they might not be changing with buyer habits (www). or they don't do service.

 

[newtothis]

MD no longer ship out of Garden Grove anymore. All shipping are done at they distribution center which are out of state that is why it take long now if you live in California.


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The packages I have received in the last two weeks have a return address to Garden Grove. So unless they ship from Nevada to Garden Grove and then to my house, I don't quite how what they're doing. The last two packages, according to USPS, my packages were sitting in Compton, CA for two days....

In a recent thread they explained they were still shipping from the west coast. It says the same thing on their website. The slower shipping is because they use the most economic method possible and you need to choose expedited shipping to get the quick delivery we had before. Am I misreading something?

MD has 2 location (actually 3), They have Nevada and Georgia distribution center, and they have a another location somewhere in the mid-west that handle the frozen goods. The Garden Grove office is strictly a call center, corporate and return center.

 

[MarineDepot]

Just a random observation....If any of you have ordered from Marine Depot recently under the new free shipping, no minimum mantra, you'll notice that local shipping is significantly slower than before due to the use of more economic methods of shipping. I now wait 3-4 days for a package that's shipped from Garden Grove to arrive. I think that this is good news for local stores because MD is no longer the fastest way to get goods by consumers. Now, local stores have faster access to dry goods from wholesalers they can visit at any time during the week. So this may help local stores become more appealing in purchasing dry goods locally now that you may be able to get a hold of dry goods faster than having it shipped.

We recently introduced free shipping with no minimum purchase which uses a mix of economy shipping methods including USPS First Class Mail, SurePost and UPS Ground. These shipments can take up to 7 days for delivery.

If you've been shopping with us for a while, the shipping method you are likely accustomed to is UPS Ground. Orders from our West Coast warehouse to California are usually delivered in 1-2 business days with UPS Ground.

You can upgrade from free economy shipping to UPS Ground for only $4.99. We'll automatically upgrade your order to UPS Ground as well when you spend $199 or more.

 

[Emac909]

I feel that the frag part of this hobby has killed the LFS. Every time I go to the LFS I see tanks and tanks of little 1/2" to 1" frag. I personally hate buying frags from shops. If I'm buying frags I'll get them from a hobbies. I want to buy a coral when I go to a LFS.
Especially sps when I first got into sps everything was brown. I loved buying brown sps and coloring them up. Now everything is super saturated with blue leds and sold as some LE bs tag it's sickening. I use to spend easy $600 a month at LFS back in the days. These days I barely spend $50 a month at LFS and I really can't tell you when the last time I actually bought a coral from one.

 

[pirate2876]

WWW, convenience, cheaper, they might not be changing with buyer habits (www). or they don't do service.

Boo-Ya. Personally, I believe internet shopping and the ease of online ordering is contributing to the loss of LFS but, it really comes down to the LFS not adapting to what the consumer needs/wants or, current shopping trends. LFS's have to adapt to survive and most don't. All of their costs are increasing but, unless they advertise on the internet, their audience is local. You really need to have an internet presence and you really need to bring your corals/goods to the people. You cant expect people to shop the way they used to back in the day.

 

[innerspark]

Ok from what I am hearing from shop owners is there are too many people who come into their shops just to pick their brains and waste their time because they buy nothing then they go online and order it for slightly cheaper. I personally am the type of person who goes into a shop for any of my hobbies and plans to walk out of that shop with at least something I need (I don't care if I am spending $5) and I try to keep my business local as best as I can because a) we get great corals and better prices being in socal b) stimulates our local economy and helps the shops keep their doors open so I have a place to go when something comes up and I need this or that within the next 1-18 hours.

One other big issues I am seeing and hearing are people are coming into shops just for their free water tests and then leave. I have seen this happen in at least 3 shops in my area and the owners talk to me about it. Then there is the fact that these companies making lights and pumps sell them to the shops super high and they don't really see much profit from selling them to us consumers.

Frankly this is a hobby, I don't think any reef only store can service a long time without having back up funding or selling online anymore. Now, these are just my observations and what I am hearing around and about. I may be wrong and I maybe hearing some of this stuff wrong but I think each and everyone of us is responsible in a way for our lfs staying open or closing their doors. If I need something, I call my lfs to see who has it and who can order it and generaly if I have the time to make it to their shop I will go there first before ordering online.

 

[TypicalWhiteAZN]

adding on..

Recent closures:
Jim's Exotic Fish (El Segundo)
Pacific Reef (Torrance)
Neptunes Reef (Torrance)
Medusa (west LA)
Atlantis (Santa Barbara)
Phil Your Aquarium (Lake Forest)
Encinitas Tropical Fish(Encinitas)
The Fish and Frag Shack (Hemet)
Iconic Reef (Huntington Beach - relocated?)

 

[organism]

imo the reason LFS are closing is because the hobby has turned into a hype market where people would rather pay $400 for a photoshopped speck from some scammer in order to have a status symbol than buy a similar piece from their LFS for 10x less that doesn't look photoshopped in person. New hobbyists used to support their LFS when they were first starting out and had honest websites like RC where they could ask questions and learn. Now thanks to hype sites like R2R they get tricked into thinking they need some flashy nonsense from online in order to have a good tank.

Your average hobbyist doesn't buy corals anymore, they buy a really nice photograph with the idea of a coral. The LFS that might stay in business are the ones who create a large online presence with impeccable photos, and that's not easy to do for shops who have a pretty established business model.

 

[gumbii]

all about hype now...