Mindstream monitor is going to change EVERYTHING!

sonnus

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#1
I was daydreaming about the Mindstream monitor and I thought I would share a few thoughts. I'd like to get other opinions and possible uses for the Mindstream from you guys. I'm assuming that the monitor will work as promised, there really is no point debating the monitors accuracy until we actually get a chance to test it.

- Alkalinity monitoring is huge! Every time my calcium reactor runs out of CO2 before I notice it my alkalinity crash. On my system I've seen 4-5 dKH drops in alkalinity in just a single day and this is a constant dread with monitoring the reactor. I'm also thrilled at the though of tuning in new reactors/dosers with the constant monitoring. The alkalinity monitoring alone justifies the price for me and this would have paid for the monitor dozens of times over in alkalinity crash preventions.

- Ammonia, initially I was really bummed out that this was one of the parameter. I must have a dozen expired ammonia kits in a box somewhere that were simply used for cycling new tanks. After thinking about this for a bit I started to really think this might be a game changer. The obvious benefit is detecting a recently deceased tank inhabitant or monitoring ammonia levels on new fish additions to ensure we are not adding fish too soon or quickly to our tanks. But, if the ammonia monitoring is as accurate as Mindstream says I think this might be a game changer in itself. I think it might be possible to monitor the "health" of our tank continuously detecting, not only death, but the health of our tank inhabitants. Neptune Systems already promotes their ORP monitoring as a "health" gauge already (rather than for ozone dosing) and I think accurate, real-time ammonia monitoring is going to be a huge step forward.

- Potassium is a vital macronutrient for our tanks and it is possible that we might end up discovering an ideal NPK ratio for our tanks (it certainly is important for agriculture). If an ideal NPK ratio does turn out to be beneficial then an accurate and easy potassium test will be key to maintaining this. Also, low potassium levels have been known to stunt growth of corals for many decades now so why don't we regularly check this? I don't think continuous potassium monitoring is necessary but an easier, and more importantly, accurate way to measure it might be a big deal.

- Oxygen is obviously an important parameter but I think we might gain some valuable insight on it's usefulness once we start monitoring it regularly.

I guess I sound like a salesman for the Mindstream but I don't think anyone realizes where this will take us 5 years from now. I'm baffled that the Kickstarter campaign hasn't received more love from us. I actually emailed them and asked them if I could reserve a dozen of these things!

Ultimately, I think this is going to start a revolution in reef keeping.
 

805reef

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#2
I'm with you on the Mindstream but I don't think the kickstarter is going to reach it's goal unless A LOT of people are just waiting to see/hear what they say at MACNA. I hope so because I want mine in December!

I've read a lot of comments, mostly people complaining about the price, but others that say there is no need to monitor all these parameters 24/7. That may be true but I personally am looking forward to all the data and using it to fine tune my system and learn more about what I can do to keep it more stable/healthy.
 
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I think its a really cool product idea... but I'd be nervous investing money in that. Just look how the Thrive testing machine has worked out. A lot of investors that are owed their money back for a product that never came to fruition.
 

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I think its a really cool product idea... but I'd be nervous investing money in that. Just look how the Thrive testing machine has worked out. A lot of investors that are owed their money back for a product that never came to fruition.
thrive was just an idea. they have somewhat a product so far.
 

805reef

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I think its a really cool product idea... but I'd be nervous investing money in that. Just look how the Thrive testing machine has worked out. A lot of investors that are owed their money back for a product that never came to fruition.
This is for sure a concern. Mindstream does have an actual product though... but my concern is it is all dependent on the company and their "cloud". the mindstream hardware just takes measurements and sends those to the cloud which are then manipulated to come up with actual alk,calc,etc readings. So if the company goes away or the website goes down there is no way to get readings from it.
 

lowbudget

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This is for sure a concern. Mindstream does have an actual product though... but my concern is it is all dependent on the company and their "cloud". the mindstream hardware just takes measurements and sends those to the cloud which are then manipulated to come up with actual alk,calc,etc readings. So if the company goes away or the website goes down there is no way to get readings from it.
its the same as the apex right now if apex ever goes down no more fusion but you can still use port forwarding. need to see the interface of this little gadget
 

805reef

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its the same as the apex right now if apex ever goes down no more fusion but you can still use port forwarding. need to see the interface of this little gadget
There is no interface with the Mindstream. The interface is only through the web. Apex you still have full control of the system without internet.


With that, I have already backed the mindstream on kickstarter and looking forward to using it
 

lowbudget

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There is no interface with the Mindstream. The interface is only through the web. Apex you still have full control of the system without internet.


With that, I have already backed the mindstream on kickstarter and looking forward to using it
i see said the blind man
 

sonnus

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#15
This is for sure a concern. Mindstream does have an actual product though... but my concern is it is all dependent on the company and their "cloud". the mindstream hardware just takes measurements and sends those to the cloud which are then manipulated to come up with actual alk,calc,etc readings. So if the company goes away or the website goes down there is no way to get readings from it.
I agree, the cloud thing sucks. But I think this is necessary for the time being until they figure out their algorithms. Also, I think there is a pretty large amount of calculations needed so it wouldn't be cost effective to integrate a capable processor in the mindstream.
 

sonnus

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Here are some interesting things I've gathered from watching the Reef Nation videos.

About the Disks:


  • Apparently you don't have to replace the disk every 30 days. This is an approximate time given by Mindstream and they mention in the video that a disk could last several months.
  • If you don't replace the disk then the readings will start to vary more and more with age. Mindstream seems to be trying to deliver very high performance from the monitor. I think that most of us will not need the kind of precision that they are trying to maintain.
  • Lifespan of the disks is mostly determined by the number of readings (light cycles) it's put through. If it is possible to limit the reading to once an hour instead of every 20 minutes the lifespan of the disks should increase. It would be great if Mindstream will give us the option to specify the readings per day so we can choose frequent checks (short lifespan) or less frequent checks (longer lifespan?).
  • Biofouling on the disk can be automatically detected by the monitor's "patch scan". The monitor takes random readings from across the film surface and if any variations in the readings are detected the monitor will notify the user that their disk needs to be cleaned.
  • 12 sensors will be on the initial disk but this can be expanded up to 24. The redundancy of the readings does go down with additional films but this might not be an issue. Since the disks have RFID chips the monitor will automatically detect the type of disk that is used.
  • Sensor technology is derived from the medical field, this means that it is tried-and-true technology. Also, since it's from the medical field many of their tests can be incorporated easily into the Mindstream. They mentioned iron and other heavy metals.
  • Blue light is used to excite the fluorescent film on the disk. The monitor then reads the fluorescence to get a measurement.



About the Monitor:
  • Alkalinity, calcium, potassium, magnesium, CO2, O2, temperature, salinity, ammonia and pH are the initial measurements but the monitor can read many others depending on what is included in future disks.
  • This technology is "sound and robust" according to Mindstream. It was developed for medical use and was not developed from scratch.
  • The monitor is placed inside the aquarium or sump in the water column. The power source is on the outside and is magnetically coupled to the monitor (like a Vortech).
  • There is a suction cup on the power supply so it will stay in place when you remove the monitor to clean it or replace disks.
  • There are multiple reader heads and the monitor can automatically detect a problem with one of the readers and adjust the measurements accordingly.
  • The monitor is buoyant.
  • Mindstream prefers that the monitor is placed in the display tank to get more reliable measurements. The o2 measurements in the sump may be high compared to the display because of the skimmer.
  • The monitor is connected through Wi-Fi to Mindstream's cloud based servers where all of the calculations are made. The Wi-Fi signal does not travel through the water very well so the monitor's top should be above the water level or the wireless router should be on the same side of the tank as the monitor.
  • The monitor will notify the user of problems through text message or email.
  • Alkalinity is the only parameter that is derived from several others. All other parameters are directly read from the monitor.
  • Maximum glass/acrylic thickness is 3/4".
  • User interface is currently web-based but Mindstream hopes to have an app by MACNA.
  • Monitor can overlay plots in 24 hour intervals.
  • Moisture sensor built into the monitor so it will detect if there is a leak and notify the user.
  • Mindstream is looking into integrating their monitor with existing aquarium products (hopefully Neptune).
 
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805reef

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#17
Good job putting all this info together!

About the o2 and putting it in the display, what if you have the sensor in your sump before the skimmer section? Would that be a fix for that issue?
 

sonnus

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Good job putting all this info together!

About the o2 and putting it in the display, what if you have the sensor in your sump before the skimmer section? Would that be a fix for that issue?
I would imagine that would be fine, I certainly won't be putting this in my display. Also a good idea to put the monitor upstream of the dosing lines.

Mindstream's reasons for it going in the display are good. If there is a pump failure or power outage your sump O2 levels will no tell you how your tank inhabitants are doing. Also, if you dose into your sump the levels might be different compared to your display.
 
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#20
I'm not familiar with kickstarter. What happens if they don't reach their goal of 300k?


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