The problem is this issue is happening frequently and Neptune is aware of it. Wolfs claim is that they are not making any changes because it is happening out of warranty & the only fix is thru Neptune aka more money to them.
Neptune Apex - not fit for purpose and appaling customer service.
- Thread starter PilotWolf
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I'm being careful not to give away too much of my side of the case but if a large number of XYZ TV failed with the same fault early on in their life I'd expect XYZ to be reasonable and help out their customers, especially if for example they were all made at a similar time or from the same batch.
Indeed I have a LED TV combo made by company A but sold under company B's name. THE DVD failed after nearly 2 years. I inquired if I could get a replacement to fit myself as it was out of warranty. Company B referred me to company A who paid for the repair, parts and shipping because it was a known fault and as a goodwill gesture company B gave me a new warranty. All turned around in 5 days. Do you think I was pleased with their customer service and that I might recommend them to people?
W.
oredith
2
hmm.. i really hate to rain on your parade, but there's SEVERAL assumptions you have made, which totally and completely invalidate your claim. i hope you don't spend more time and money in this, because a small claims judge is going to point out the exact same things i'm pointing to right now.
aside from that very important factor, there's also the fact that the civil code only deals with california professional code 9801, sections (h), (i), (j), and (k).
the apex does not even remotely fall into one of those categories. If anything, it would be in (m)
sorry to burst you bubble dude, but you're gonna lose this if you take it to court.
all the judge is going to do it point out that Neptune DOES provide repair parts and service, they are under no obligation to enable YOU to do it yourself, and they are under no obligation to provide it for free
- the spirit of civil code 1793.03 is such that if a company is providing a warranty, that they have to make available the part necessary to make the repairs to a repair shop. the idea is that a consumer is not left with NO options to repair their purchase. it's like Microsoft, they provide product support for XP, even though they no longer sell it.
- you are assuming that if you can claim that YOU are capable of conducting the repairs, that Neptune (in this case) will have to provide you with the information to conduct the repair, as well as the parts
- however, what you're failing to take into account, is that Neptune IS complying with the law, they DO provide a repair company the parts and know-how to repair it. that company is NEPTUNE.
aside from that very important factor, there's also the fact that the civil code only deals with california professional code 9801, sections (h), (i), (j), and (k).
the apex does not even remotely fall into one of those categories. If anything, it would be in (m)
sorry to burst you bubble dude, but you're gonna lose this if you take it to court.
all the judge is going to do it point out that Neptune DOES provide repair parts and service, they are under no obligation to enable YOU to do it yourself, and they are under no obligation to provide it for free
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If someone came to me and told me they were not happy with their chili dog, and I told them "sure I'll take it and give you your money bac...and their response is. "Oh, well I ate the whole thing"
Obviously I would apologize, BUT I would NOT give them their money back.
Eating your whole chili dog and asking for a refund, or trying to get neptune to cover your broken apex out of warranty.....Sorry, but I think your shet out of luck
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xmas_one
0
My $0.02, your eb8 is out of warranty and the court is going to tell you to go fly a kite. Obviously the product line has more glitches than it should, and Neptune customer service sucks. I would not buy or even use an Apex if it was given to me, fancy toy that increases failure points on your system. Best of luck though PW.
You have no idea if or what assumptions I have or have not made or what how I intend to play this and obviously I have no intention of posting it here or anywhere else...
If Neptune let it go to court then that's just fine by me because I don't intend it to be my losing. They get to see my evidence just before the case is heard and vice versa. I know who has most to lose...
PW
oredith
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unless you've got something else hidden under your sleeves, that California civil code isn't going to do anything for you.
don't take my word for it though. you seem like you have decided on this path anyways, and i doubt anything I, or anyone else, say will change that.
I will leave it at - Good luck, i wish you the best, like i said, I sympathize, i just don't agree
But we're not talking about a $2 chilli dog for one thing and it is FAULTY not broken - I did nothing to cause the failure. And I have never suggested that I am asking for my money back. Just a resolution to fix a product that they continue to sell with a known fault without me and others being out of pocket.
And I seem to think that wasn't the answer you gave before regarding a dissatisfied customer...
PW
Curious on your proof of why its faulty and not broken? And how many have had this same problem? And how many haven't? You make it sound like this is a conspiracy.
Like broken as if you dropped it? Things don't last forever but don't get me wrong that sucks. Sounds like you have more time on your hands then some as this seems to be based on principle for ya.
Yep I have long sleeves
And an excellent, recently retired attorney friend...I wish it wasn't going to be this way but that's down to Neptune and they're the only ones that can resolve this either voluntary or (more likely) as the result of a court order.
PW
Broken as in caused by [the user] rather than poor quality components/standard of construction causing it to fail as seems to be the case.
I already have been provided with sufficient numbers of failures to show this isn't just one or two units.
Principle maybe - I stand up for what I believe is right. As I said it might make them think twice in the future and improve their customer care. If no one took a stand on things then women still wouldn't be able to vote, slavery would still be allowed, etc. Different scale of importance but still someones' principles made them take a stand.
PW
If I'm understanding this correctly there are two issues at hand here.
1. That Neptune knowingly concealed a defect that would generally occur shortly after the warranty expired.
2. That Neptune must provide documentation and parts to service facilities for a period of time for certain products.
For issue 1, here's a case that seems to apply. http://www.leagle.com/decision/20071614515FSupp2d1099_11527.xml/HOEY v. SONY ELECTRONICS INC.
The plantiffs in this case claimed that Sony concealed a defect in two models of their laptops that eventually lead to it's failure. The case was dismissed. It seems it's a lot harder to prove than just saying a few of us have issues so there's a defect and that Neptune knowingly knew about it and is concealing it.
For issue 2, you can kind of argue both ways. Can this device be classified as an Electronic Set? The catch phrase here is "including but not limited to" in the subdivision (h) so that's going to be something for the judge to decide. Next, can the civil code apply to consumers because it does explicitly state "service and repair facilities". Again that would be for the judge to determine.
Looks like you'll have a good case on issue 2 but personally, I don't think it's worth the effort. Even though I'm pretty handy with repairing basic things there's no guarantee that I'll be able to repair the thing even if they provided documentation and parts. I remember someone saying it cost $75 to fix the power bar. Why if the part cost $50 and only saving you $25? I'll probably kick myself going through all that and only saved that much.
However good luck to you if you proceed with this.
1. That Neptune knowingly concealed a defect that would generally occur shortly after the warranty expired.
2. That Neptune must provide documentation and parts to service facilities for a period of time for certain products.
For issue 1, here's a case that seems to apply. http://www.leagle.com/decision/20071614515FSupp2d1099_11527.xml/HOEY v. SONY ELECTRONICS INC.
The plantiffs in this case claimed that Sony concealed a defect in two models of their laptops that eventually lead to it's failure. The case was dismissed. It seems it's a lot harder to prove than just saying a few of us have issues so there's a defect and that Neptune knowingly knew about it and is concealing it.
For issue 2, you can kind of argue both ways. Can this device be classified as an Electronic Set? The catch phrase here is "including but not limited to" in the subdivision (h) so that's going to be something for the judge to decide. Next, can the civil code apply to consumers because it does explicitly state "service and repair facilities". Again that would be for the judge to determine.
Looks like you'll have a good case on issue 2 but personally, I don't think it's worth the effort. Even though I'm pretty handy with repairing basic things there's no guarantee that I'll be able to repair the thing even if they provided documentation and parts. I remember someone saying it cost $75 to fix the power bar. Why if the part cost $50 and only saving you $25? I'll probably kick myself going through all that and only saved that much.
However good luck to you if you proceed with this.
oredith
2
if you do go through with it, and come out victorious, i'd love to hear about it.
skeptical, but I too, love a good fight in court - but i pick my fights, and if this was me, i wouldn't fight it based upon my reading of the code.
as far as a defect goes, i think that's going to be a VERY difficult sell. do you have any data on how many units of EB8 neptune has sold? i'm assuming you do since you're making the claim that they knowingly produced defective product, BUT.
1. the product worked? didn't it? and not just for a few minutes, hours, days, or even months. it works for the entire duration of the warranty period
2. how many products failed the same way? you have ?5? cases? lets even assume a VERY conservative 500 units. that's a 1% failure. a judge isn't going to rule against a company for that, especially when it lasted the warranty period.
3. can you prove definitively that those other units failed in the SAME way? not a power surge, not because their electrical system might be shoddy, maybe they were running off multiple splitters off one? the burden of proof is on you here.
good luck, seems like a very steep uphill battle
skeptical, but I too, love a good fight in court - but i pick my fights, and if this was me, i wouldn't fight it based upon my reading of the code.
as far as a defect goes, i think that's going to be a VERY difficult sell. do you have any data on how many units of EB8 neptune has sold? i'm assuming you do since you're making the claim that they knowingly produced defective product, BUT.
1. the product worked? didn't it? and not just for a few minutes, hours, days, or even months. it works for the entire duration of the warranty period
2. how many products failed the same way? you have ?5? cases? lets even assume a VERY conservative 500 units. that's a 1% failure. a judge isn't going to rule against a company for that, especially when it lasted the warranty period.
3. can you prove definitively that those other units failed in the SAME way? not a power surge, not because their electrical system might be shoddy, maybe they were running off multiple splitters off one? the burden of proof is on you here.
good luck, seems like a very steep uphill battle
I am not going to post details of what I know here for obvious reasons. I have considerable experience and training of preparing civil and criminal cases and winning them based on supported facts.
Neptune will not know what I have or be permitted to have copies of supporting evidence until just before the case is heard. If they want to take that chance then as I said I look forward to seeing them in court. You can be pretty sure the part doesn't cost $50 too.
Given that they have not denied there is a problem, have banned me from their forum and even removed the reviews section from their FaceBook page I let you decide if they have something to hide or not. I have no doubt that the board owners will be requested to remove this thread in the near future too.
PW
Neptune will not know what I have or be permitted to have copies of supporting evidence until just before the case is heard. If they want to take that chance then as I said I look forward to seeing them in court. You can be pretty sure the part doesn't cost $50 too.
Given that they have not denied there is a problem, have banned me from their forum and even removed the reviews section from their FaceBook page I let you decide if they have something to hide or not. I have no doubt that the board owners will be requested to remove this thread in the near future too.
PW
This whole thread just made me want some chilli dogs lol
I remember when the old lady sued mcdonalds because the coffee she spilled on herself was too hot. She won but I think settled out of court. It's a prime example of ridiculous lawsuits that are unnecessary.
I see why you're mad, my apex has an uncontrollable outlet too and they will try to charge me for it as well. But my time is more important than fighting for $75 in a lawsuit. I'm sure you're lawsuit will not just be asking to fix it for free. I'm sure you will want some kind of damage money. If that's the case you're just like the coffee lady, suing because you're sue happy.
I hope you win, I do, but it would not be worth my time. And it's definitely not worth my anger.
I remember when the old lady sued mcdonalds because the coffee she spilled on herself was too hot. She won but I think settled out of court. It's a prime example of ridiculous lawsuits that are unnecessary.
I see why you're mad, my apex has an uncontrollable outlet too and they will try to charge me for it as well. But my time is more important than fighting for $75 in a lawsuit. I'm sure you're lawsuit will not just be asking to fix it for free. I'm sure you will want some kind of damage money. If that's the case you're just like the coffee lady, suing because you're sue happy.
I hope you win, I do, but it would not be worth my time. And it's definitely not worth my anger.
That's why the big mac is more $$$ and smaller.:becky: Be ready for the Apex to go up in price due to sue happy people or Neptune decide to fix all the broken EB8 that are out of warranty. But I do understand your frustration that an EB8 will go out so fast but I would just get a new one and call it a day. Just think of it like a $160 fish died from Ick, we all have been in that boat before.
I have not seen company come out and admit to any issue with their product unless it become a safety issue and that when the recall begin.
Goober
0
This thread is entertaining in many ways. Some say sue happy people drive up the cost of things. Others will say it's corporate greed and inflation. Some say it's not worth fighting for. Others will say if you suspect a problem why not report it? It might save lives or headaches at a later point. For example, when Toyota had an issue the gas pedals being "stuck" how many "sue happy" people came out and claimed they had theirs stuck in hope of getting a new car or a free inspection? This argument Imo has no right or wrong answers. It's like politics and religion. Everyone has their own views on what they wanna believe. I wish you the best of luck Pilotwolf and I hope the verdict becomes public weather you win or lose. As and apex owner I am one of those that are very happy with it. I haven't had any issues with it Yet. But on the other hand I've helped a few others try to setup theirs with issues. Hope the matter gets resolved regardless.
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Nope, I just want a working EB8 and don't see why I or anyone else should line Neptune's pockets in this case rather than them fix the problem. Please don't jump to conclusions by reading between the lines.
The refusal to allow anyone else to repair the Apex maintains their monopoly and option to charge whatever they like for doing so.
Why should I give them another $200 for a new EB8 and possibly be in the same situation this time next year? Also I wouldn't pay $160 for any fish or coral...
PW
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