We have so many choices in skimmer's today and they all claim to be "The Best". This thread is not to decide what is the best but to discuss the different styles of skimmers ant the technology involved in them. You can certainly say what you feel is the best but let's not argue about it. I want to learn about all the different styles and why people choose to skim that way. Some claim that old school is best while others say the new cutting edge stuff is far superior. So lets talk about it, I mean we have all kinds cone skimmers, double cone, semicone, Down draft, venture style, Pin wheel/ needle wheel, mesh wheel, Internal, external, pipeless, to name a few different key words we see describing skimmers. I'm hoping to get some of the old school guys to give up the wisdom they have and share it with us. Guys like RayRay and spinner, and yes even Al (you may not think it Al but your a wealth of knowledge). So what do you have and why did you choose it? What the difference in all these way's of foam fractioning?
Skimmer technology what it was to what it is
- Thread starter pgr11
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Ummm...OK I guess I got put on the spot. My first foam fractionator aka protein skimmer(foam fractionator is more accurate since they remove more than JUST protein) was a homemade counter current lime wood air stone piece of junk. I got plans off the internet and went to S&W plastics on E St. in San Bernardino and got all the materials. When I was done it went into my custom 30g Tupperware sump next to my 15g tank. It was crooked and ugly as sin, but it pulled skimmate. It wasn't efficient by today's standards but what did I know as a young kid? It was awesome to me at the time. It was circulated by a junky power head and ran a knock off air pump. Oh and I had to change the lime wood air stone weekly...man I was(and still am) dumb. That was 1998.
Around a year later I "upgraded" to a HOB skilter skimmer. It was LOUD but it was a lot cleaner than my previous "model". If you ever had a skilter let me know, we need to have an IPA and reminisce. Hahaha
Well that was a POS so I found a used prism(I think that was what it was....the flat boxy HOB skimmer??? Anybody remember the name?) It worked good but it CONSTANTLY needed to be reprimed. The venturi intake would fall off its plug and fill the U-pipe with air on a daily basis. Oh memories...
Next up I got a CPR BakPak. This was one of the best HOB skimmer/fractionators I ever bought. I still use this today on my quarantine tank. It works great except the original Rio pump/venturi is finnicky in its old age.
After that it was an ASM G-model. I forget the exact model. It was meh...but I worked for what I needed it for.
My latest fractionator is an Alpha Vertex 200. This thing is a BEAST. It pulls an insane amount of air and it is SILENT. It took a while to dial in but the skimmate is as thick as crude oil.
These are my personal fractionators and experiences/opinions, nothing more. I've also worked with professional models in marine labs, hatcheries and mariculture settings but that's another topic for another forum for another day.
For years I went "skimmerless" since I got unlimited natural seawater from my schools marine lab. So there was a good chunk of time in college where I ran a modified Jaubert-style system just to make my aquarium science professor angry. Lol
I hope this helps and wasn't too boring. Flame on!
Edit: I didn't even dive into technology. Sorry. I'll repost later when I get more time.
Around a year later I "upgraded" to a HOB skilter skimmer. It was LOUD but it was a lot cleaner than my previous "model". If you ever had a skilter let me know, we need to have an IPA and reminisce. Hahaha
Well that was a POS so I found a used prism(I think that was what it was....the flat boxy HOB skimmer??? Anybody remember the name?) It worked good but it CONSTANTLY needed to be reprimed. The venturi intake would fall off its plug and fill the U-pipe with air on a daily basis. Oh memories...
Next up I got a CPR BakPak. This was one of the best HOB skimmer/fractionators I ever bought. I still use this today on my quarantine tank. It works great except the original Rio pump/venturi is finnicky in its old age.
After that it was an ASM G-model. I forget the exact model. It was meh...but I worked for what I needed it for.
My latest fractionator is an Alpha Vertex 200. This thing is a BEAST. It pulls an insane amount of air and it is SILENT. It took a while to dial in but the skimmate is as thick as crude oil.
These are my personal fractionators and experiences/opinions, nothing more. I've also worked with professional models in marine labs, hatcheries and mariculture settings but that's another topic for another forum for another day.
For years I went "skimmerless" since I got unlimited natural seawater from my schools marine lab. So there was a good chunk of time in college where I ran a modified Jaubert-style system just to make my aquarium science professor angry. Lol
I hope this helps and wasn't too boring. Flame on!
Edit: I didn't even dive into technology. Sorry. I'll repost later when I get more time.
IME the more Gallons of water and air the pump draws in the higher skim yield tends to be. I've had energy hogs Psk-2500 pumps that although say they take in a lot of water did not do as advertised.
Opening a motor tells you a lot of the way it will perform in the future. If it looks like Sanh made it with chopsticks and crazy glue it will not be your last skimmer you ever buy.
E,
Opening a motor tells you a lot of the way it will perform in the future. If it looks like Sanh made it with chopsticks and crazy glue it will not be your last skimmer you ever buy.
E,
In all my years of reefing, I have seen the best results come from large downdrafts, Becketts, and injection type skimmers. That being said, the sudden increase in electricity costs in California all but made those skimmers extinct here. All three of those skimmers employ long dwell times and huge columns of foam to do their work. They also could be made far more effective using ozone. Even without the use of ozone, these skimmers yielded far higher ORP levels than pinwheel/needlwheel skimmers. The downside was that they also consumed huge amounts of electricity to do it, had noisy air intakes, rarely fit under a stand, and usually used loud pressure rated pumps.
Downdraft skimmers:
Injects jet of water down a 1 column filled with bio balls. As the water drops through the column of bio balls, the water begins to turn to a foam as it breaks up during it travel into the skimmer miving box where it then rises into the skimmer body as foam.
Advantage: Extremely long contact time.
Disadvantage: Large, noisy pressure pump required, high wattage pumps
Injects jet of water down a 1 column filled with bio balls. As the water drops through the column of bio balls, the water begins to turn to a foam as it breaks up during it travel into the skimmer miving box where it then rises into the skimmer body as foam.
Advantage: Extremely long contact time.
Disadvantage: Large, noisy pressure pump required, high wattage pumps
Injection skimmers:
These skimmers inject a high-pressure stream of water into the mixing chamber drawing air into the chamber as the high-pressure velocity mixes the air and water. A similar effect like when you spray a high-pressure water stream into a bucket to wash a car.
Advantages: extremely tall foam head increases contact time.
Disadvantage: Large, noisy pressure pump required, high wattage pumps
2 days of skim mate from my AquaC EV1000 in a 5g bucket.
These skimmers inject a high-pressure stream of water into the mixing chamber drawing air into the chamber as the high-pressure velocity mixes the air and water. A similar effect like when you spray a high-pressure water stream into a bucket to wash a car.
Advantages: extremely tall foam head increases contact time.
Disadvantage: Large, noisy pressure pump required, high wattage pumps
2 days of skim mate from my AquaC EV1000 in a 5g bucket.
Air driven skimmers:
These skimmers in their simplest form use wood air diffusers to inject small bubbles at the bottom of a tall skimmer.
Advantages: air pumps tend to be very energy-efficient. Water enters through the top and exits through the bottom. This countercurrent design forces the bubbles past incoming water. Air driven skimmers have very low turbulence.
Disadvantages: you need an additional pump to pump water into the skimmer. The good ones are typically tall. The use of an air pump can be noisy. They don't process as much air as many other forms of skimming.
These skimmers in their simplest form use wood air diffusers to inject small bubbles at the bottom of a tall skimmer.
Advantages: air pumps tend to be very energy-efficient. Water enters through the top and exits through the bottom. This countercurrent design forces the bubbles past incoming water. Air driven skimmers have very low turbulence.
Disadvantages: you need an additional pump to pump water into the skimmer. The good ones are typically tall. The use of an air pump can be noisy. They don't process as much air as many other forms of skimming.
imo there really havent been too many new breakthroughs in skimming tech. Since making bubbles & collecting them is mostly mechanical in nature, the advances have been more in efficiency than in any methodology. Nature uses tides & wind (moon/gravity & sun) along with with sloping beach surfaces to do it, but since we dont have endless energy it seems our focus had been on refining mechanical bubble formation.
Same with lighting. We know LEDs are more efficient, but not more effective than fossil fuel burning MH. At least we have a theoretical max efficiency of around 350 lumens per watt in lighting. Im not aware of any list of shiff / watts when it comes to skimming. Also, skimming is not absolutly required unlike lighting.
Ive owned all the types of skimmer expertly described by gcarrol, none of them is more effective beacuse they all skim well. Like with led lighting, im a fanboy of the newer more efficient one, mainly because im lazy & like to save money.
Same with lighting. We know LEDs are more efficient, but not more effective than fossil fuel burning MH. At least we have a theoretical max efficiency of around 350 lumens per watt in lighting. Im not aware of any list of shiff / watts when it comes to skimming. Also, skimming is not absolutly required unlike lighting.
Ive owned all the types of skimmer expertly described by gcarrol, none of them is more effective beacuse they all skim well. Like with led lighting, im a fanboy of the newer more efficient one, mainly because im lazy & like to save money.
And that brings us to where we currently are! Pinwheel/Needlewheel/Meshwheel/Gridwheel skimmers.
Pinwheels mix air and water in the pump volute by shredding it with it's pinwheel. and inject the mixture into the skimmer body.
Advantages: the better ones can be small but mighty. Most are not very tall which allow them to fit under tanks. Pinwheels create much smaller bubbles than other forms of skimming so they have more surface area. This is where they make up for their lack of contact time. Best of all they user smaller more efficient pumps.
Disadvantages: Lack of height reduces contat time.
Pinwheels mix air and water in the pump volute by shredding it with it's pinwheel. and inject the mixture into the skimmer body.
Advantages: the better ones can be small but mighty. Most are not very tall which allow them to fit under tanks. Pinwheels create much smaller bubbles than other forms of skimming so they have more surface area. This is where they make up for their lack of contact time. Best of all they user smaller more efficient pumps.
Disadvantages: Lack of height reduces contat time.
Good stuff above everyone
I came from a different path since we used Algae Turf Scrubbers and no skimmers in the beginning. It was only after building refugiums did I start using skimmers(DIY air driven ones) at first for many years. Once I started building prototype refugiums my R&D was mainly focused on macro algae's and growing micro fauna. Seeing what skimmers could do at this time both air driven and venture was the factor with me designing skimming first filters.
Soon bullet reefs, wall reefs, and Berlins were reefer's choice, we raised the turn over rate from 5 to 10+ times an hour. This is the time I remember skimmers starting to get big....my first large skimmer was a Top Fathom 10" x 72" dual venture powered by 2 55RLTs. A little after this is when I meet Jeff at a trade show in Las Vegas and saw the EURO REEF for the first time.......his skimmers looked like they were full of milk froth and I have been a Euro Reef fan since then. Then the next trade show is where I saw ETSS for the first time they looked like something out of a sifi movie....talk about being humbled. After looking at their skimmers then going back to my booth I knew I needed to take it up a bunch of notches if my refugiums were ever to be in the same room with ETSS Skimmer's.
Wish I had some better information to share regarding skimmers but they were just an option for my refugiums so I didn't spend time studying them. They did however inspire me to build oxygen towers as a way to saturate aquarium water believing it would have benefit's both for DTs and filters.........studies never finished
I came from a different path since we used Algae Turf Scrubbers and no skimmers in the beginning. It was only after building refugiums did I start using skimmers(DIY air driven ones) at first for many years. Once I started building prototype refugiums my R&D was mainly focused on macro algae's and growing micro fauna. Seeing what skimmers could do at this time both air driven and venture was the factor with me designing skimming first filters. Soon bullet reefs, wall reefs, and Berlins were reefer's choice, we raised the turn over rate from 5 to 10+ times an hour. This is the time I remember skimmers starting to get big....my first large skimmer was a Top Fathom 10" x 72" dual venture powered by 2 55RLTs. A little after this is when I meet Jeff at a trade show in Las Vegas and saw the EURO REEF for the first time.......his skimmers looked like they were full of milk froth and I have been a Euro Reef fan since then. Then the next trade show is where I saw ETSS for the first time they looked like something out of a sifi movie....talk about being humbled. After looking at their skimmers then going back to my booth I knew I needed to take it up a bunch of notches if my refugiums were ever to be in the same room with ETSS Skimmer's.
Wish I had some better information to share regarding skimmers but they were just an option for my refugiums so I didn't spend time studying them. They did however inspire me to build oxygen towers as a way to saturate aquarium water believing it would have benefit's both for DTs and filters.........studies never finished
cpr bak back was the thing. then asm. we use to mod the heck out of the skimmers. asm with with ektmat to make finer bubbles. gate valve mod. then recirculating pump with the power hog sedra pumps. then getting a g3 pump for the g1x. other then the cheap platic they use to make the skimmers they were pretty goooooood. today just buy a skimmer with red and white accent you are done. i been threw a few skimmers myself. warner marine, swc, tunze, currently running a deltec tc2560 on my 150. a lot more efficient then my swc. at 34w 1500 lt air cant go wrong
Here is something I am installing two skimmers on my DT one on each end. My thinking use the skimmer feeding off the DT to help feed each side of my close loop system. With installing this way I am able to use flow from the close loop pump to feed the skimmer thru a venture.
Thoughts?
Thinking maybe 1/2" venture since skimmer's are only 4" x 36"?
Lets talk skimmers designs too
Thoughts?
Thinking maybe 1/2" venture since skimmer's are only 4" x 36"?
Lets talk skimmers designs too
Here is something I am installing two skimmers on my DT one on each end. My thinking use the skimmer feeding off the DT to help feed each side of my close loop system. With installing this way I am able to use flow from the close loop pump to feed the skimmer thru a venture.
Thoughts?
Thinking maybe 1/2" venture since skimmer's are only 4" x 36"?
Lets talk skimmers designs too
Thoughts?
Thinking maybe 1/2" venture since skimmer's are only 4" x 36"?
Lets talk skimmers designs too
Mace, a protein skimmer is an open system, so I dont know how this could be attached to a closed loop? give this noob some of your secrets! In terms of the design, a new one with a purpose built efficient pump, bubble plate and cone design seem to be the rage, as long as its red and white and european. The pump must look as sexy out of the water as it does wet, unlike me
2014 CAD lights pipeless skimmer
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/blog/cad-lights-introduces-2nd-generation-pipeless-protein-skimmer
2014 3D printed protein skimmer (or was that AR/AK lower receiver?)
http://reefbuilders.com/2014/03/31/diy-3d-printed-protein-skimmer/
2012 http://www.advancedaquarist.com/blog/3d-printing-a-venturi-injector-for-a-protein-skimmer
2012 http://www.advancedaquarist.com/blog/could-your-next-protein-skimmer-be-3d-printed
2014 "Protein Skimming Aint Rocket Science", LOL I love it because its so true
http://saltaquarium.about.com/od/proteinfiltersetups/ss/ssskimmers4dummies.htm
2010 3reef skimmer tech summary, great write up, this guy must have a lot of time on his hands
http://www.3reef.com/forums/protein-skimmers/all-about-skimmers-skimmers-skimmer-85389.html
2010 Elemental Analysis of Skimmate.
Conclusions: "Only a minor amount of the skimmate (solid + liquid) could be attributed to organic carbon (TOC); about 29%, and most of that material was not water soluble, i.e., was not dissolved organic carbon. The majority of the recovered skimmate solid, apart from the commons ions of seawater, was CaCO3, MgCO3, and SiO2 - inorganic compounds!
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2010/2/aafeature
2009 Development of a Method for the Quantitative Evaluation of Protein Skimmer Performance
"Four skimmers having four different reaction chamber volumes and representing four distinct types of bubble generation (needlewheel, venturi, airstone, and downdraft) were tested under the manufacturers' specified conditions. These tests revealed that there was no demonstrable difference between the Euroreef CS80 needlewheel skimmer, the Precision Marine ES100 venturi skimmer, the Precision Marine AP624 airstone skimmer, and the ETSS evolution 500 downdraft skimmer with respect to the rate constant for either TOC or BSA removal. Thus it is fair to conclude that, at least for the skimmers tested under the specified conditions, the individual manufacturers' claims of superior performance are without merit. Whether this conclusion can be extended to other skimmers remains to be seen."
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2009/1/aafeature2
you read correctly, an 2002 airstone skimmer performed the same as a 2009 needlewheel skimmer. but which one made the girls heads turn?
